#56 op identification and line length faq item
Closed: Fixed None Opened 13 years ago by duffy.

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My IRC nick is: mizmo

Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this ticket:

in #fedora

<pitchfork> it's the 64bit flash i think
<lamah> pitchfork: re, nothing again
<lamah> pitchfork: su: warning: cannot change directory to /home/lamah: Permission denied
* mwharris has quit (Quit: leaving)
<lamah> .bash_profile: Permission denied
<pitchfork> lamah· ausearch -m avc -ts today | fpaste
<lamah> and for everything
<lamah> in /home
<pitchfork> stop typing like that
<pitchfork> i won't say it again, i'll just stop responding.
<RSpliet> Eil: thank you, this kind of confirms my worries... since Fedora 15 the CPU doesn't automatically scale any more
<Sysi> enter is not punctuation
<RSpliet> governor "defaults" to userspace
<lamah> http://fpaste.org/6co6/

/privmsg pitchfork:

<mizmo> hey if you've got concerns with someone's style of typing, it's probably better to take it up with them one-on-one rather than to the whole channel
<pitchfork> Auto-Response: Hello, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages/notices/invites please get my attention in the channel.

back in #fedora:

<mizmo> pitchfork, complaints about a particular person's IRC style are probably better in privmsg
<molossus> su -c 'tail -30 /var/log/messages | fpaste' this worked, thanks guys
<pitchfork> no, they're not.
<pitchfork> everyone should see that's unacceptable
<mizmo> has nothing to do wtih fedora and is distracting
<dcr226> lamah, hint you piped it last time to fpaste
<RSpliet> Eil: it "used to work" on Fedora 14 :)
<pitchfork> this
<pitchfork> is
<lamah> dcr226: i am confuse
<pitchfork> distracting
Ou42 falls to floor laughing and crying
<mizmo> pitchfork, if you are concerned about folks following an acceptable etiquette guide, posting a general link to the guide is better than singling someone out
<RSpliet> I set the governor to ondemand, see what happens now
<dcr226> lamah, ausearch -ts today -m avc | audit2why
<dcr226> and read the result lamah
<lamah> thank
<lamah> :(
<Eil> I find all of this complaining unacceptable and plan to file a complaint
<lamah> :)
<Ou42> "It looks like that this distribution is unsupported"
<pitchfork> mizmo· feel free to /ignore me
<Sysi> mizmo: nice paradox you have there
<jbroome> Eil: my counter complaint is forthcoming
<mizmo> Sysi, i tried to privmsg pitchfork, he doesn't accept unsolicited privmsgs sadly
You have been invited to #slackhappy by mathezula (card.freenode.net)
* nirik rolls eyes. Shall we get back to fedora?


<dcr226> lamah, the output should give you a bunch of suggestions on how to fix....you seeing it yet?
<lamah> audit
<RSpliet> nirik: I never changed that particular setting :)
<lamah> yes
<lamah> 2why
<RSpliet> and it was set to userspace
<fedbot> Please visit our trac instance at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ and file a feedback ticket telling us about your experience in #fedora. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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steve555 (~steve@cpc1-perr10-0-0-cust346.perr.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #fedora
<dcr226> lamah, keep typing for the maximum amount of time your hand will let you before letting pinkie hit <enter> ;-)
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<pitchfork> dcr226· please tell him in private message! it's embarrassing!
<lamah> i am 200x300 resolutuin, sorry, and a tons of work his day
<nirik> pitchfork: knock it off please?
<dcr226> lamah, on a mobile?
<Sysi> you know, you can seriously break system with too eager enter-finger, if you type rm -rf /home/user/somefile and you miss part of the path
c_korn has quit (Quit: Software you want www.getdeb.net)
<pitchfork> nirik· can i request you please add my to the bots perm ban list?
<nirik> pitchfork: add what?
<pitchfork> by "perm" i mean, never to be lifted under any circumstances.
nirik tries to parse
<pitchfork> s/my/me
fcuk112 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Abu-3dnan (~Sameer@ has joined #fedora
<nirik> you wish to be banned from the channel?
<nirik> why not adjust your client to not join this channel instead?
<Ou42> nirik: because liveusb-creator can't do persistence i gave live-usb-install a shot, but it can only handle persistence for ubuntu and debian. :(
<pitchfork> but then you'd miss out on the fun..
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<Eil> oh man, I missed IRC
<Sysi> i didn't miss offtopic
nirik only finds it sad personally.
streeter (~streeter@nat/redhat/x-wackmwhjljkaieot) has joined #fedora
<nirik> Ou42: so, do you get any errors?
irn has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
<pitchfork> clearly lamah is communicating correctly and needs no course correction from me or anyone else.
<dcr226> lamah, yeah, so what you do is pipe ausearch to audit2allow to create a module
<Abu-3dnan> I'm using Conky on Fedora 15 every thing works fine but conky can't read my network speed I'm using (downspeedgraph eth0 ) in .conkyrc file but even if I used em1 instead of eth0 it doesnt work, any advice?
<Ou42> dcr226: that's what i've done in the past, but i can't find info that tells me it'll fit... 4gb usb keydrive. would like to install houdini on it ( 700 mb )
<lamah> pitchfork: sorry i am trying to type in this small build in monitor
molossus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<Ou42> dcr226: also, i'd lose the ability to plug it into any pc, right ( that's what sold me...) alas it was but a dream. :p
<lamah> nirik: sorry yes do not sad for some machine, meet is imporant with fedora friends and people, have a good meet
* avandever (~avandever@ has joined #fedora
<lamah> dcr226: yes

Please note other IRC nicks that are involved in this interaction:

Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based on this feedback:

It's very difficult to figure out who is in charge and who isn't, as it appeared the present ops didn't get their ops from chanserv so it's not really obvious to an outsider who's in charge.

pitchfork was speaking authoritatively on a technical support issue, and then out of nowhere started (unnecessarily imho) rudely refusing to talk to the person he was helping unless they changed their style of typing.

any kind of quiet discussion was prevented by his block on private messages. and in the end it turns out lamah was typing short length messages because of a situation with his monitor.

some suggestions:

  • it would be good if ops were oped so it was clear whether or not pitchfork was an op.

  • i don't see any rules against having shorter messages in the channel. if this is an important matter of etiquette then it should be added to the FAQ

  • there is a rule against flaming, it should be enforced https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Channel_FAQ#Avoid_Flaming

  • ops should accept privmsgs (not saying they don't, just something to think about)

Any additional notes or logs:

Thanks for your feedback!

Purely from a clarity perspective, pitchfork isn't an op

+O'ing ops in #fedora is a potential fix, but I've heard it also might make us targets? I don't know this as I've never done it, just what I've been told.

Interesting that this one comes up here. Now let me make myself to the most hated op in #fedora* :)

pitchfork is no op, correct. He is very well known with his former nick for a lot of things. Most of them, well, negative.

"IMHO", he's one of the few persons in the channel, allowed to act as he wants, due to "other people" speaking for him and even fighting for him/his rights. I'm currently not going to point with fingers at persons. I was the one (some time ago) with the balls to make his wish come true and perm banned him from #fedora and #fedora-social (one for posting porn pics in the open channel and in PM to users not expecting that, the other for attacking me personally badly in PM and the open channel). Now the interesting part, both bans got lifted, extremely soon. One without any permission from me, by his personal-care-taker.

I'm always impressed when i think about, that people, follow conversations, do read logs, but nobody cares for real what happens. Some people can do what they want, op and non-op. It ends up with "the situation wasn't handled perfectly", "hopefully we can learn something from it". Yes, people are already educated how things work in #fedora, they already learned it :)

That's one of the reasons i started to not care about #fedora that much as i did in the past, in my spare time. Often i just watch the channel. Quite interesting, as i said.

Oh, before i forget.. I see my role as op not as the hardcore helper with some extra power to kick out/ban poeple, but as a person trying to keep the channel calm. Includes to not be the one flaming, attacking others in the first place.

As said, feel free to hate me, but it's the truth.

Great feedback/ideas. :)

We talked in the past about 'voicing' known good/active helper folks. We could revisit that. We got bogged down in who should be voiced, but we could just say: "An op should voice themselves if they are active in channel and wish to help folks"?
Something to discuss at next meeting...

I'll note also that many new users will have no idea what op or voice means or how to look for it, but it might help others.

There is a short and not very clear section of the faq: "Using the enter key or "lol" as punctuation should also be avoided." which I think we should rework completely.

There's lots of reasons people don't like private messages. ;( So, not sure we have any way to fix that.

Thanks for the ideas/thoughts.

"Switching your name based on your various periods of inactivity can also be rather annoying, especially when overused. There are many people in channel, please be considerate of their attention."

Yes, please be considerate of their attention and do not engage in a 20-line long lambasting of someone for going -afk (a VERY common convention in the #fedora- development channels) in the channel. If you have a problem with someone's nick, and you know them, talk to them about it privately! If the point is to 'save' the channel from off-topic noise, yelling at someone across 20 lines is extremely counter-productive.

I've completely given up on #fedora. If you want developers to participate you need to lighten up on this following-the-letter-of-my-arbitrary-law-to-the-extreme-of-missing-the-entire-point-in-the-first-place bullshit.

Also "rather annoying" isn't a policy.

We agreed at the 2011-06-23 meeting that we shouldn't be warning people for nick changes that are not overused or anoying.

We also decided not to use op/voice at this time in the channel.

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