#291 Fedora t-shirts
Closed: Fixed 10 months ago Opened a year ago by amsharma.

New Fedora t-shirts printing along with ambassador t-shirt.
Budget - ??
Numbers - 50 Fedora T-shirts and 5 ambassador t-shirts
We can get it done by local vendors if possible at one place for cost effectiveness.


I don't think the new ambassadors have the t-shirts yet. It'd be nice to have one. +1

  • Do we know how many new Ambassador's did we add recently?
  • Why 50 Fedora t-shirts?

If we are printing Fedora t-shirts with DevConf.in in mind, that should be at least 200. Let's try to get real numbers, so that we can budget properly.

Thank you.

+1 as new Fedora Ambassadors should get a t-shirt

New Ambassadors (since few listed here are more than a year old , but still )
@sumantrom @amsharma @skamath @siddharthvipul1
anyone else?

@amsharma you know what your problem is? You mixing anywhere in without deeper knowledge, we still have a lot Ambassador shirts left.
Not seen a ticket to get it. So you managed more then a year not to raise the ticket, I asked before FUDCon who needs one, not seen that you said that you need one. Same for FAD KUL I asked nobody reacted.

@gnokii If you have seen the list, it is not just me. So, please be respectful while you pass on your opinions about me or anyone else.
As far as the t-shirts are concerned, it is good to know that we have them already. But in today's meeting there were more than 7 people, and noone shared this information (It seems noone know about it).

@amsharma, you know I have a mind like an elephant. If I remember right and I would find this logfile and was someone with the nick amsharma, as we planned to do the shirts that they can be done cheaper in India. So far of knowledge, so dont tell ever again nobody shared this information.

nobody would have kept you from asking before making a ticket, if we still have Ambassador shirts

You saying here I have seen the list and I dont know which list you talking about, I dont care about fedora-india list or what list do you mean, I have not seen any mail on this topic at the Ambassadors list nor have I seen a ticket assigned to me to get a shirt

I am talking about today's APAC ambassador meeting and last APAC ambassador meeting and the list above with names.

@amsharma I dont care about a list with names that been in the meeting, it starts with you. I proved here, that you had the knowledge so why didnt you share? Well when I see the names, all young Ambassadors so you expect them to know it?

you don't care :D

okay, see here is the thing, if you try to understand it with open mind ->
1. I was not the ambassador during FUDCon or FAD KUL and seriously I don't remember when did you ask me about t-shirts.
2. All young Ambassadors in the list (in your opinion ) was ambassadors even before me :) , so now you may calculate who is the younger one.
3. I have no agenda to blame you for anything. If asking for a t-shirt in an open ticket where I nowhere even tagged you, is so much bothering you, then I can close this ticket and we can put this discussion to close.

Also, please note that this is my last comment in this ticket, I don't want to put my energy and time into this beyond this point.

Sometimes it is good to chill and enjoy life and don't stretch things unnecessarily when there is no need.

you know what you can have last word, useless to tell you something.

@gnokii your communication here is problematic because it takes a very antagonistic position. Instead of attacking, this is an opportunity for you to share your knowledge about how to get a shirt, for example, by posting a link to the process that should be followed. This is also your chance to share the link to where you are maintaining the inventory to help the group make an informed decision about printing more shirts.

Please share those links here now.

@amsharma I believe @pjp is right regarding devconf.IN. What was the need for the 50 shirts you mentioned?

@bex dont you see, its just we need just some shirts for something, you always tell if there is a good reason, so whats the reason here I dont see, its just want to have t-shirts.

This is about things we agreed as a community, how to handle it and it gets in a constant ignored. Its about reading log files and keep yourself up to date.

That is our inventory: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD:PhnomPenh_2014/shirts

its provable, that the complaining person was Ambassador during last FUDCon, its also proven that i reminded on the shirts and its also proven that there been Indians who could have taken it back, to save postal fees which make it always hard to have centralized swag in APAC.

But no, we using now the ways the Diversity Team uses, we need just say we want to spend and they get, and this method we transfer now to the Ambassadors. Speaking about getting it cheaper with a sum of 5 is just a joke. We did a larger batch of this shirt for a reason, to stop this local production in a different look thing. We dont want the situation here, producing local shirts like in LATAM where is then written on Fedora Brazil or whatever. We wanted to have all the same across APAC and we have not achieved it to 100%, you can look how many mails went out to get to this 46 distributed. And the core problem is this carelessness about what is going on.

New Ambassadors (since few listed here are more than a year old , but still )
@sumantrom @amsharma @skamath @siddharthvipul1
anyone else?

Hey add me too @mpduty :)

@gnokii please present a welcome tone to new ambassadors. After all, the community is what its members are, and if this is the tone used to welcome them, it's all downhill after. You're a senior member, and I'm sure you could find a different way if you want to convey your displeasure.

You've pointed to the wiki page where the shirts have been claimed or distributed, but there's no count of shirts that are left in the inventory. Can you please share those details (preferably on a wiki page)?

Also, since you're active on this ticket, can you please look at https://pagure.io/ambassadors-apac/issue/217 and get a shirt shipped to Woo? That was a really bad experience for him.

Thanks,

@amitshah

  • read wiki pages, learn simple arithmetics, there is a link to tickets where an amount is in.
  • start thinking on your "welcoming" behavior by yourself before educating others on such matters.
  • dont try ever to put me to work on things you want, do it by yourself - if you think there must be something on a wiki page put that in by yourself
  • same with send Woo a shirt, you not my boss or mother to order me things to do

and this is my last word to this.

I dont have my door closed, its still open for those who want to work with me, but I not go to meetings anymore because of exactly that people like amitshah. I dont put a lot of organizational effort into make sure that I have time during that time and also stable internet, anymore. Its not worth it. I also stopped running behind people try to help them, so I dont care who writes here add me to the list. You can be damn sure I see it but I dont care anymore. If you do it right, fine then I will do, but not this way.

Reflect all a bit on yourself here and as I said before, its my last word on this

@gnokii It is clear you do not want to do the things needed to manage these shirts, such as shipping the shirts when needed and clearly reporting the inventory status. Please ship them to me.

The address is:

Brian Exelbierd
Red Hat, Inc.
Purkyňova 71/99, Královo Pole
612 00 Brno
CZECH REPUBLIC

Fedora can either prepay the shipping (contact me directly for details) or I can reimburse you when you have a receipt.

Please post a tracking number by Monday March 19th or post a complete inventory with an explanation about why the shirts cannot be shipped. They may be shipped by DHL ground or a similar style service that will deliver in less than 2 weeks.

While Mindshare works on the new ambassador structure I will happily manage the distribution of these shirts and then relocate them as appropriate.

Thank you.

read a bit more clear, I dont run behind people. What means I dont care if somebody makes somewhere a ticket, if somebody mentions in some meeting or something like that. My task is not to looking always around who needs something is that clear now? We had and have a working system, when it gets ignored not my problem. I simple stop running behind the people and pampering them POINT.

Second, you will not set me such deadlines, I am not employed by RH so you might ask me if I can do and not demanding me. Where you living here? Out of your mind or something like that? So please remind some people to make a ticket and assign it to the right person so simple is that.

thank you

Numbers - 50 Fedora T-shirts and 5 ambassador t-shirts
We can get it done by local vendors if possible at one place for cost effectiveness.

I have 2 ambassador t-shirts (Asian male L size) left over from the 2014 APAC FAD. You're welcome to drop in at reserved-bit (337, Amanora Chambers, Above Amanora Mall) to pick them up; it's pretty close to the RH office.

@gnokii I recognize that you are a volunteer contributor who doesn't work for Red Hat. I understand that you don't have time to run around behind people and do things like post the link to the directions (where is that link?) or help those who almost get the process right, but miss some detail. I also hear you loud and clear that you don't have time to do shipping at all.

I do have time in my day to be able to do these things so I need the physical shirts to be able to help the project here. I again ask that you send me the shirts. Can you tell me when you could ship them? If it is going to take a while I am going to need to print new shirts to fill the existing demand until the shirts you are currently holding can be folded into the inventory.

@bex you hear always what you want to hear, we make it short. I NEVER BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SO BOTHER THE PERSON WHO IS RESPONSIBLE! You might have asked me nicely to organize that the responsible person ships them but you failed and in you message still swings a demand - "tell me when you can ship" and if you can not read and you dont get the problem at all, then its not my problem.

@gnokii could you share with us who you understand the responsible person to be? So far in this thread you have asserted responsibility and asserted that you have the shirts. Your sharing this information is appreciated.

Hoarding knowledge and providing obtuse and unhelpful answers is not how we do things in Fedora.

@bex you are a hopeless case, really. You assumed something, I never said I am responsible nor asserted that I am, when somebody says "I shall ship a shirt to Woo" doesnt make me responsible at all. I just said there are many shirts left and I even gave the link to the inventory POINT.
You are not better then this person, who "demanded" me to do this task as you not read the ticket otherwise you would not ask me such questions.

The Fedora Council is working with Sirko on understanding and following the Code of Conduct.

Let's move on and focus on the actual request. As I understand the policy from the 2014 web page the correct procedure is to file a ticket in the "APAC Trac", which has now migrated to this tracker. This request is basically that, except the ticket filer didn't know that there might be shirts still available (which is reasonable, since 2014 was a long time ago and there is no clear public tracking of any stock and it seems pretty straightforward to assume that a page that hasn't been updated since December 2015 might not be accurate — even if one would know to start with that obscure wiki page).

So, no one has shown up saying that they have shirts to distribute to the new ambassadors, except @siddhesh, who has two in male L size. That's clearly inadequate for the request. So, let's go back to the beginning and figure out what's needed and then get new shirts produced.

I suggest, though, that rather than doing this just in APAC, we should figure out what we want to do globally. I'm not sure the best way to do that, but I think maybe closing this ticket and opening one in Mindshare would be a good approach.

Working looks different

Am 28.03.2018 um 22:54 schrieb Matthew Miller:

The Fedora Council is working with Sirko on understanding and following the Code of Conduct.

Sometimes discussions that go downhill because of a misunderstanding can be put back on track. It seems this was dragged down all around.

Since we're airing it all here altho thats probably not the most productive way fwd....

There are some valid concerns here:

  • Missing data : how many new ambassadors
  • Missing data : context for t shirt need
  • Concern : ambassadors who have been around more than a year not having t shirts - trying to track down who needs one
  • Concern : were spending more money instead of using resources we already have
  • Concern: a discussion about this issue is happening elsewhere and isnt linked to here in the ticket for better context in fulfilling it
  • Concern: as new ambassadors come on board inventory data isnt being shared or tracked in a consistent and discoverable way
  • Concern: volunteers being demanded to do things

Instead of focusing on solving some of these problems there is a continual back and forth of tone policing and he said she said in multiple directions.

Yet behind the scenes despite all this public airing of grievances gnokii is informed privately hes banned from fedora for a lengthy period of time bc of this ticket? Ia that how we resolve conflict now?

I have said my piece multiple times about concerns around wastefulness in terms of both spending and the environment on swag. I wont reiterate that. But it is 2018, ambassadors have been working with swag inventory for a long time. Ambassadors need to focus on managing inventory if - as it seems from concerns raised here - this isnt managed centrally and isnt kept updated. If this ticket was filed under design teams tracker - no offense to anyone, we may have a very different style of ticket management but i suspect from the back and forth here theres disagreement as to ambassadors ticket process - this ticket does not have enough data to be actionable. If inventory was managed well it wouldnt have been as necessary.

I get that Sirkos tone was blunt to start but it didnt go downhill until it was assumed to be offensive, and you lead him down that path. Sirko is an extremely talented and motivated volunteer in Fedora and if you could figure out how to harness his passion and energy instead of assuming the worst and pushing him down a spiral like this you would have a powerfull ally.

In the future if you have a concern about Sirko please reach out to me privately.

I also get btw we cant be perfect in everything, but why dont we try to be better.

This ticket only demonstrates part of an ongoing pattern of behavior which does not seem to be improving. That is destructive to the project overall and demoralizing and discouraging to many other contributors. Let's keep this ticket to discussing shirts. If you'd like to discuss the code of conduct action, please file a ticket with the council.

I most certainly will!

I am contacting @sumantrom @amsharma @skamath @siddharthvipul1 off ticket to inquire about sizes and addresses. I am going to close this ticket when I have fulfilled these requests.

Shirts for @sumantrom @amsharma and @siddharthvipul1 will mail this week. I am waiting on information from @skamath

I received one fedora ambassador t-shirt. Thanks.

@bex Thanks a lot for sending the t-shirts :)
It landed on the perfect time (two days before the F28 Release Party)

@bex Thanks a lot. Got the t-shirt :)

I believe all shirts, except for @skamath have been shipped. As he is currently away, I am request that we close this ticket. I will wait for his reply to direct email.

Metadata Update from @sumantrom:
- Issue close_status updated to: Fixed

10 months ago

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