I think its good to see @pjp holding the card for apac payments. He is a active (and regularly checking apac tickets and India list emails) person.

I too agree with @pnemade

I agree we need someone to share responsibility with @izhar .
I was the APAC budget treasurer in 3-4 years and I know it's time consuming job.

I think we should let @izhar keep CC. You know, giving a CC to another person is a time wasting task. In the past, we need months to assign a CC to him.
So it's easier to assign a new budget treasurer. We need a volunteer. I can share my experience to him/her at anytime.

I agree we need someone to share responsibility with @izhar .
I was the APAC budget treasurer in 3-4 years and I know it's time consuming job.

Some of the job has changed with budget.next so I hope it is less time consuming :). It is helpful if the treasurer and cardholder can edit text files in a git repo.

I think we should let @izhar keep CC. You know, giving a CC to another person is a time wasting task. In the past, we need months to assign a CC to him.
So it's easier to assign a new budget treasurer. We need a volunteer. I can share my experience to him/her at anytime.

For reasons that have nothing to do with @izhar we are going to be issuing new credit cards. If we want to change now is the time to make this decision. Therefore, I think we can let @izhar have his choice assuming he wishes to express one and APAC, etc. is ok with it.

I think we should let @izhar keep CC...So it's easier to assign a new budget treasurer.

Major reason for moving the CC to a new holder is response time. It has been observed that reimbursements, even approvals take quite long to come by. Having a new treasurer would not address that problem.

@pjp since you seem to want to have some of the responsibility - can you read https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/docs/faq_budgeting.html and prepare a PR for the budget that updates the the APAC file with all of the recently approved tickets?

..can you read https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/docs/faq_budgeting.html and prepare a PR for the budget that updates the the APAC file with all of the recently approved tickets?

Okay, will do.

PR raised -> https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/pull-request/43

PR raised -> https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/pull-request/43

merged! thank you!

I agree we need someone to share responsibility with @izhar .
I was the APAC budget treasurer in 3-4 years and I know it's time consuming job.

we quoting you here from KUL, "I am not the treasurer" thats why izhar has currently both roles, we discussed in KUL also if that has consequences and could bring conflicts and the answer to that is NO, as the CC holder has not to ask the treasurer to spent money, see EMEA.

I think we should let @izhar keep CC. You know, giving a CC to another person is a time wasting task. In the past, we need months to assign a CC to him.

keep the feet on the floor. We agreed also in KUL to get another CC for pjp for paying the media and swag production. Have not seen you taking action for that. Was just me, I went to Joe and asked for it and he told me, pjp shall use his RH CC for it, well Joe forgot that they dont have such ones for RH India.

So looks for a thing @bex might solve, the process of centralizing swag and media production is not an new idea and was initiated already but bringing it to a full run is a stony way and makes no process through such small things like Joes answer. Not to mention that the distribution still sucks.

@pnemade @sayanchowdhury I dont care if PJP reads regularly the fedora-india list, I care more when Indians start to care more about other Asians. And that starts in not promoting people because they are Indians as more it are the right people for the job.

So it's easier to assign a new budget treasurer. We need a volunteer. I can share my experience to him/her at anytime.

@pnemade @sayanchowdhury I dont care if PJP reads regularly the fedora-india list, I care more when Indians start to care more about other Asians. And that starts in not promoting people because they are Indians as more it are the right people for the job.

I will reply only to this part as it is addressed to me. @gnokii my comment was based on few below facts that I want you to know first

1) I do not auto join #fedora-apac channel but whenever I joined I have not found all the active APAC ambassadors there.

2) I am not having access to apac ambassadors mailing list so I do not know what discussions are there going.

3) All I am active on this ambassadors-apac project/trac where I can read/reply to all the tickets.

4) Recently If I look back only @pjp has shown interest to chair the apac ambassadors bi-weekly meetings. I see @zsun was also active sometimes.

5) I have rarely seen @gnokii or @izhar or any other long time old ambassador in apac in bi-weekly apac meetings.

6) For any issues where I saw India users/contributors needed help be it on mailing list or on this project/trac, @pjp always helped them, hence I mentioned he is active on fedora-india list.

So based on above observation tell me why should I not recommend @pjp? Why you see mentioning fedora-india as a reference here is a careless thing for you??

I would like to know from you, @gnokii to please provide here references for your comment "I care more when Indians start to care more about other Asians."

2) I am not having access to apac ambassadors mailing list so I do not know what discussions are there going.

We don't have a APAC specific ambassador mailing list. the APAC list was created to be an easy way of receiving APAC tickets before.

4) Recently If I look back only @pjp has shown interest to chair the apac ambassadors bi-weekly meetings. I see @zsun was also active sometimes.

I am not really active (from APAC Ambassador perspective) for the past a year and a half due to time commitment.
I try not to be involved into this ticket before, as I am already struggling with Fedora in China, with limited free time I cannot guarantee any commitment to APAC.

2) I am not having access to apac ambassadors mailing list so I do not know what discussions are there going.

We don't have a APAC specific ambassador mailing list. the APAC list was created to be an easy way of receiving APAC tickets before.

Oh then that must be the main ambassadors list I was referencing here. I mistakenly considered that as apac-ambassadors list. Thank you for correcting me here.

4) Recently If I look back only @pjp has shown interest to chair the apac ambassadors bi-weekly meetings. I see @zsun was also active sometimes.

I am not really active (from APAC Ambassador perspective) for the past a year and a half due to time commitment.
I try not to be involved into this ticket before, as I am already struggling with Fedora in China, with limited free time I cannot guarantee any commitment to APAC.

Sorry to here that. Hope you will find some time for Fedora again in future.

@pnemade @sayanchowdhury I dont care if PJP reads regularly the fedora-india list, I care more when Indians start to care more about other Asians. And that starts in not promoting people because they are Indians as more it are the right people for the job.

I will reply only to this part as it is addressed to me. @gnokii my comment was based on few below facts that I want you to know first
1) I do not auto join #fedora-apac channel but whenever I joined I have not found all the active APAC ambassadors there.
2) I am not having access to apac ambassadors mailing list so I do not know what discussions are there going.
3) All I am active on this ambassadors-apac project/trac where I can read/reply to all the tickets.
4) Recently If I look back only @pjp has shown interest to chair the apac ambassadors bi-weekly meetings. I see @zsun was also active sometimes.
5) I have rarely seen @gnokii or @izhar or any other long time old ambassador in apac in bi-weekly apac meetings.
6) For any issues where I saw India users/contributors needed help be it on mailing list or on this project/trac, @pjp always helped them, hence I mentioned he is active on fedora-india list.
So based on above observation tell me why should I not recommend @pjp? Why you see mentioning fedora-india as a reference here is a careless thing for you??
I would like to know from you, @gnokii to please provide here references for your comment "I care more when Indians start to care more about other Asians."

I give you an answer, but first of all you should think a bit about the time when the meeting is maybe you figure something out, not to mention that APAC is a bit bigger and has a lot of time zones.

How would be you going through the logfiles and recognize that whenever a not-indian comes with something that there is discussion and for indians is mostly approved without any discussion.
Not to mention what happens when there is swag produced, it must be India, the media are the best example, we tried to cooperate with EMEA and of course the DVD was a bit more expensive but that is way better as the "cheap" indian ones, which are not pressed it are burned ones and each 3rd isnt booting to the desktop. Not to mention that production of the things is discussed on india list but other APAC people seems to have no saying in it!

I give you an answer, but first of all you should think a bit about the time when the meeting is maybe you figure something out, not to mention that APAC is a bit bigger and has a lot of time zones.

I think for meeting timing ticket has been open here for sometime ago and it was open for 2 weeks and asked to submit preferred timings. I don't see @gnokii replied there. See that ticket #274 for more information. Anyway, you can open a new ticket here by providing your preferred timing and all the active ambassadors can work on deciding new meeting time.

How would be you going through the logfiles and recognize that whenever a not-indian comes with something that there is discussion and for indians is mostly approved without any discussion.

This should not happen. All tickets where budget is required should get discussed for who needs budget, why he/she needs, how its getting used. If there is any particular case where budget was approved without discussion I request to provide that information here for future references.

Not to mention what happens when there is swag produced, it must be India, the media are the best example, we tried to cooperate with EMEA and of course the DVD was a bit more expensive but that is way better as the "cheap" indian ones, which are not pressed it are burned ones and each 3rd isnt booting to the desktop. Not to mention that production of the things is discussed on india list but other APAC people seems to have no saying in it!

Have you reported any ticket for swag budget before and denied budget? I didn't see any request for DVD media from you in #268 this ticket. If the budget is getting spent completely and we need more budget for DVD media in APAC region then this must be first discussed here like how much DVD media different countries need in APAC then how much budget for it in total needed. Then we also need to look for where should these media be purchased like we currently give order in India for media production. Which other countries need to place media production order?

Can you report tickets here for the issues you are facing? I think the active APAC ambassadors will definitely help you.

@bex: Has this reached any conclusion at FAMSCo? Any update?

My understanding is that FAmSCo decided this should be done at the regional level if so desired. There has not been a requirement from RH yet.

Hi,

sorry been away for quite some time .. $dayjob very understaffed .. I'm ok with the split of payment and treasurer as it can be quite a challenge for me to track budget with my current capacity ..

I will vote for @pjp to take up the new role

In the time since this ticket has been open, the following has happened.

@izhar has decided to step back and let others take over the day-to-day work. I remain grateful and appreciative of his work and look forward to continuing to work with him in the project in whatever capacity he desires.

@pjp has stepped up to do the treasurer's work. This is maintaining the budget entries and this kind of administrative work. It does not have a unilateral veto power.

@woohuiren has offerred to take over as card holder. This position involves paying reimbursements/expenses that are approved by the region and supported by receipts. This position does not have a unilateral veto.

No one else has stepped forward to offer to take these roles. It isn't clear to me what we need to do to bless this, so I am going to suggest we move forward with lazy consensus. If I am not mistaken there is an APAC meeting tomorrow. I suggest we discuss this ticket there, vote and then leave voting open for one week. Barring objection, I'll work with RH to get @woohuiren a card (or determine if there is a blocker) and with both of them to learn how to use the budget system.

I am +1 for the @pjp for treasurer's work and +1 for @woohuiren for card holder

same here, +1 on @woohuiren for card holder and @pjp for book-keeping.

@woohuiren I am going to start the process to find out how to get you a CC with Red Hat.

@pjp and @woohuiren can you all both read the instructions at budget.fedoraproject.org and let me know if we should set up a time to talk through the budget maintenance.

Thank you!

I believe this ticket can now be closed.

My late +1 for @woohuiren .

Per above comment, I am closing this.