@lsm5 do you have some link to the commits / PRs that were made to Fedora packages by @haircommander ?

@ignatenkobrain nope, he hasn't committed to Fedora packages yet afaik. I guess I could have him as co-maintainer but I can't give him commit-level access in dist-git because I think that needs 'packager' group membership already.

So, would co-maintainership in this case involve sending PRs to the package dist-git?

Technically, we can allow this (I can certainly sponsor him through for you), but I'm uncomfortable with doing this without any proof that Peter knows what he's doing with Fedora packaging. Do you have anything that shows competency there?

I guess I can have him send a few PRs for cri-o and then get back to this request. Can we keep this issue open?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_get_sponsored_into_the_packager_group#Become_a_co-maintainer

Hrm, if @lsm5 is happy to mentor @haircommander while they co-maintain the package, I think we can sponsor @haircommander here.

@lsm5 : this means that you'll have to actively check and verify bits until you're both confident that @haircommander has gained the necessary experience/know-how. Perhaps limit initial work to PRs so that you can both review them together? This is all extra work + responsibility for you and is necessary in this sponsorship route, since the idea is that the candidates learn by doing while receiving guidance.

I'd like us to avoid situations where one needs to have packaging experience to co-maintain but cannot get sponsored to co-maintain without packaging experience. If the current package maintainer trusts their co-maintainer, it should be sufficient for us for a start? Thoughts?

I'd like us to avoid situations where one needs to have packaging experience to co-maintain but cannot get sponsored to co-maintain without packaging experience. If the current package maintainer trusts their co-maintainer, it should be sufficient for us for a start? Thoughts?

Our policy already permits this. The problem is that generally the rule is that the sponsor is supposed to be the mentor for these situations. But this situation is one where the sponsor is entirely disconnected from the whole process and is granting the privilege without any proof of competency (which is what package reviews are for, by the way!). Granting packager rights and maintainership is a matter of trust, and I don't want to give it without something to make me comfortable that they will do the right thing with that trust.

I'd like us to avoid situations where one needs to have packaging experience to co-maintain but cannot get sponsored to co-maintain without packaging experience. If the current package maintainer trusts their co-maintainer, it should be sufficient for us for a start? Thoughts?

Our policy already permits this. The problem is that generally the rule is that the sponsor is supposed to be the mentor for these situations. But this situation is one where the sponsor is entirely disconnected from the whole process and is granting the privilege without any proof of competency (which is what package reviews are for, by the way!). Granting packager rights and maintainership is a matter of trust, and I don't want to give it without something to make me comfortable that they will do the right thing with that trust.

Sorry if I wasn't clear: I am suggesting that we trust @lsm5 to mentor @haircommander in this scenario. After all, @lsm5 is a package maintainer and is thus implicitly trusted.

We sponsors don't own every package in Fedora, so if new members can only join as co-maintainers of our packages, we're already limiting the field quite a bit. I was really under the impression that a newcomer could be sponsored as a co-maintainer of any package as long as the main maintainer of the package agreed to mentor them. Was I mistaken?

@ankursinha ^ that would be great and that was my plan anyway. But, I'm also ok with having Peter sending me some PRs first and then I can get back to this issue if everyone feels safe with this option.

This is allowed, and if @lsm5 formally agrees to it, I'll push the buttons to add @haircommander.

ack thanks all. I'll work with @haircommander and agree to be held responsible for his work on cri-o :) . @ngompa please go ahead, thanks!!

It's all done!

Thanks all once again!! Closing..