#2452 F34 Self-Contained Change: Policy for Modules in Fedora and Fedora ELN
Closed: Accepted 2 months ago by zbyszek. Opened 4 months ago by bcotton.

Establish a set of rules for Modular content in Fedora to ensure an optimal user and packager experience.


In principle, I am +1 to this change.

However, I am -1 to allowing default streams in Fedora right now. Thus, I would propose to accept this change with the proviso that only Fedora ELN may use default streams at this time, and default streams for ELN, and ELN only are delegated to the ELN SIG with a report for review by FESCo on the progress of using modularity technology in this manner.

In principle, I am +1 to this change.
However, I am -1 to allowing default streams in Fedora right now. Thus, I would propose to accept this change with the proviso that only Fedora ELN may use default streams at this time, and default streams for ELN, and ELN only are delegated to the ELN SIG with a report for review by FESCo on the progress of using modularity technology in this manner.

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. I've also got a request from @churchyard to encode that into the policy text which I'm going to take care of.

If we are to allow default modular streams for whatever reason in Fedora, EPEL or ELN I think the proposed policy makes sense. However I do not support allowing default modular streams anywhere (neither in Fedora nor in EPEL nor in ELN) for reasons that have been already stated many times before. I'll vote depending on what this change actually is proposing, but until we know that, I'm -1.

Same for me. I am -1 until we have a proposal on where default streams are enabled. I do not support default module streams for Fedora or EPEL.

@dcantrell The idea here is that this policy describes how default streams would work, while this Change would scope enabling default streams exclusively to Fedora ELN.

@dcantrell The idea here is that this policy describes how default streams would work, while this Change would scope enabling default streams exclusively to Fedora ELN.

Exactly this. I just tweaked the Summary section of the Change Proposal to state explicitly that this is only about ELN right now (though the policy could be applied to Fedora and EPEL in a future Change, but I'm not asking for that right now).

I wonder where does that information come from thou, because I've asked about this repeatedly and it was neither denied nor confirmed. The only bit that remotely touches this is:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/2OZMN2S2SJMNV5TJ4ZJ45HHIDPXWHSSE/

I like Neal's proposal of "Fedora ELN may use default streams at this
time, and default streams for ELN [...] are delegated to the ELN SIG
with a report for review by FESCo on the progress of using modularity
technology in this manner" in the FESCo approval ticket.

But still, this has not been discussed as part of this propsal :/

My previous comment was sent before I've seen the comment by @sgallagh.
Thanks for the update of the summary.

My remaining concerns are the following:

  • the policy should mention explicitly that the default streams part is only applicable to ELN
  • allowing default modular streams in ELN was still not discussed with the wider community (which was the reason I've wanted this to go trough the change process)

I am +1 for this change, I think most of the concerns have been addressed by @sgallagh and the change have also been discussed on devel-list.

Have my +1 vote as well.

While I share some of the concerns raised by Miro and on the mailing list, I think those can be addressed if / when problems arise, and we can always revisit changes to the policy then.

We've talked about this briefly in this meeting.

https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-08-12/fesco.2020-08-12-14.00.html

The Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable) deadline has passed for Fedora 33 and this has not yet been approved. Since it is a policy change that applies to ELN which is a rolling Rawhide-like release, the target Fedora version is not that relevant here and this can be rebranded to Fedora 34 change.

Metadata Update from @churchyard:
- Issue untagged with: F33
- Issue tagged with: F34

3 months ago

So generally I'm in favor of this change, but only if change will be changed to reflect the fact that it is "Allow default modular streams in Fedora ELN". Same goes for the text.

Sorry, I did not have time to go through ML but I'll do so as soon as I can.

Metadata Update from @dcantrell:
- Issue tagged with: meeting

3 months ago

+1 from me. I think @sgallagh has answered all the questions and adjusted things.

I am +1 to this change as well

I am still very much -1 because I don't think that the current version of default modular streams is viable at all and I don't think the modularity team has any plans to change that.

That said, since it seems that the policy will be approved, I'd like to say that the policy is good and I fully support what it says (if I take the "default modular streams are allowed in ELN" constraint as granted). Thank You for all the work on this.

That said, since it seems that the policy will be approved, I'd like to say that the policy is good and I fully support what it says (if I take the "default modular streams are allowed in ELN" constraint as granted). Thank You for all the work on this.

Thank you for your feedback and commitment to helping me get this in shape, despite your misgivings. I don't always agree with you, but I do greatly respect you.

We discussed this during the last meeting:
* #2416 Update 3rd party repo policy (dcantrell, 14:34:54)
* DECISION: everyone will read latest draft and vote in the ticket

There seems to have been a misunderstanding. https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/modularity/pull-request/83 was merged with the comment "FESCo approved the related Change in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2452" (https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/modularity/pull-request/83#comment-129173), four days ago, but this ticket is still open.

Current tally: +7, 0, -1. (I'm counting @ignatenkobrain as +1, because he expressed support conditional on some changes to the text, which have been done. @dcantrell is not included, based on https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2452#comment-669207). The 7 days for voting ends tomorrow. So while this will be approved most likely, it isn't yet.

Metadata Update from @zbyszek:
- Issue untagged with: meeting
- Issue tagged with: pending announcement

2 months ago

Metadata Update from @zbyszek:
- Issue untagged with: pending announcement

2 months ago

Sorry, I assumed that since we had +7 before the meeting ended, with several people voting in the meeting, that we had approved it.

Let's wait until tomorrow. Things will be consistent then again.

I am still very much -1 because I don't think that the current version of default modular streams is viable at all and I don't think the modularity team has any plans to change that.

That said, since it seems that the policy will be approved, I'd like to say that the policy is good and I fully support what it says (if I take the "default modular streams are allowed in ELN" constraint as granted). Thank You for all the work on this.

I am -1 on this as well, for the reasons @churchyard said. My biggest concerns around this proposal are that we've seen that modules can't be isolated in to different products while those same products build on each other. This will likely require some form of default modules in Fedora, which we have said we don't want. The limitations of the tools and roadmap for modularity tooling does not indicate to me any effort to prevent that. As implemented, I do not feel modules are something that can be easily isolated in a build collection like ELN and have zero impact on Fedora.

That said, I hope I'm proven wrong and default streams do work in ELN.

Metadata Update from @zbyszek:
- Issue close_status updated to: Accepted
- Issue status updated to: Closed (was: Open)

2 months ago

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