Assuming that we don't message fedora-devel for private tickets, I think a one-time notification on new-ticket creation is a sensible idea.

We'd need a separate bot or something to do that, since the integrated thing will send private ticket notifications to devel too.

Well, all Changes get announced on the devel / announce list first anyway. So there's a very small number of FESCo tickets that would actually need to get announced "the other way round" (i. e. on the devel list second). Is a bot really necessary for this?

I think it's better to encourage discussion on devel first, tickets after.

I think it's better to encourage discussion on devel first, tickets after.

The current documentation at https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/#_ticket_policy states:

---8<---
FESCo tracks all ongoing decisions using the FESCo Ticketing System. Generally, tickets are of two types: tickets asking for FESCo’s advice or tickets asking for a specific policy or technical change to occur. When FESCo’s opinion is sought, a ticket is opened and then FESCo will reply to that ticket with either a proposal or by adding it to the next weekly meeting agenda for discussion.
---8<---

It seems that you prefer a different approach and use the ticketing system mainly for voting but not for the discussion if I understand correctly, so this should be documented there.

I don't think my preference goes against this policy. It could certainly be more explicit to encourage discussing ideas and problems first with broader community if that's the consensus.

I don't think my preference goes against this policy. It could certainly be more explicit to encourage discussing ideas and problems first with broader community if that's the consensus.

Technically, it is ok to have a workflow where the policy requires to submit a ticket and get a reply to send an e-mail instead. But it is not very user-friendly in my opinion.

I think it'd be reasonable to send a one-time notification about new tickets to the mailing list. It'll make it easier for people to keep up with fesco work when they want to.

I consider the question of notifications completely separate from where the discussion happens first: quite often proposals are made on fedora-devel first, but then we do the actual voting on the fesco ticket. Other issues don't need to be discussed externally first, and the ticket is the only place. In both cases a heads-up that the fesco ticket is open can be useful.

Ideally, this would be implemented in pagure itself. Setting up a separate bot to do this is probably going to be as much code as doing it in pagure, but it'll be harder to keep working in the long term.

pagure can bcc/cc a list/email address on all tickets... but we don't want that in case someone files a private ticket.

I think if someone files a ticket and we want discussion, we can ask them to start that discussion and use the ticket for actions after the discussion.

We could adjust the ticket policy something like:

FESCo tracks all ongoing decisions using the FESCo Ticketing System. Generally, tickets are of two types: tickets asking for FESCo’s advice or tickets asking for a specific policy or technical change to occur. When FESCo’s opinion is sought, a ticket is opened and then FESCo will reply to that ticket with either a proposal, by adding it to the next weekly meeting agenda for discussion or asking the submitter start a discussion on the devel list about the issue.

Open to better ways to word that... it still seems... odd.

I think notifications on new tickets are a good idea. It makes it clear that a proposal has reached the point of having opened a ticket, whether or not a discussion on the issue has taken place on the devel list or not.

What about: We accept the idea in general and if someone comes up with a reasonable implementation (automatized, but does not divulge private tickets) we'll be happy to use it.

Well, sure. There is nothing wrong in doing so.

I'd like to see people discussing on devel more and only approaching FESCo after, but this does not necessarily go against that.

From today's FESCo meeting we decided to not automate announcing new tickets. FESCo members will mention new tickets on fedora-devel as appropriate. For example, we probably won't announce every non-responsive maintainer ticket. But a ticket with a major change proposal will probably be announced unless there is already an active discussion around it on the mailing list.

AGREED: (+8, 0, -0)

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