#1878 Please change "Everything" directory to something less inaccurately comprehensive

Created 10 days ago by mattdm
Modified 2 days ago

The Fedora mirror tree has a directory structure like this:

AtomicHost/  
AtomicWorkstation/  
Cloud/  
Container/  
Everything/  
Modular/  
Server/  
Spins/  
Workstation/

It used to be that the directories other than Everything contained subsets of Everything, but that's increasingly not the case — notably, there's content in Modular, and then, also, the Atomic things are different. And we have things like Copr, which provides Fedora Project bits, and for that matter there's also EPEL.

This isn't just aesthetic, or "merely" confusing. It's a barrier to thinking about things that aren't part of the traditional Fedora package collection as Real Fedora.

I suggest "Collection" as a possible alternative, but I'm open to anything that allows the existence of Everything Else.

"Collection" or "Components" or "Content" all all fine with me. +1 this request

IMHO the new name should described it's content better than "something" and and "Collection", "Components" and "Content" do not really add anything to understand what to expect there for me. It just leads to the question "Collection of what?". My initial idea would be to use something like "Tradtional" or "Classic", which at least suggests that it contains the bits about how we used to do things. But this misses the information that stuff from there is also included in other artifacts. This lead me to realize that in the past Fedora was basically "Everything" and then we added new things with new names but we newer got a name for the stuff that used to be Fedora. IMHO once we have this, it should make it easier to name the directory. For example if we would call it "Fedora Classic", it could also be "ClassicEverything" and it would also make sense to rename "Spins" to "ClassicSpins" and "Workstation" to "ClassicWorkstation" and so on.

I guess the new name for old stuff needs to be sanctioned by the Council and then the technical details about what needs to be changed is part of rel-eng.

I guess the new name for old stuff needs to be sanctioned by the Council and then the technical details about what needs to be changed is part of rel-eng.

That logic doesn't make sense to me. It's not "old stuff". The packages in Everything are used to build the rest of the Editions and spins. The addition of content in Fedora that isn't from Everything is relatively new. It certainly doesn't make the packages in Everything "old" or "classic". Both of those have a negative connotation that they are going away or somehow obsolete. That's not the case. The packages there will still be used as the foundation for almost everything else.

Perhaps "Foundation" or "Cornerstone" would work?

This lead me to realize that in the past Fedora was basically "Everything" and then we added new things with new names but we newer got a name for the stuff that used to be Fedora. IMHO once we have this, it should make it easier to name the directory.

Yes! The question is how do we call this "old" (in the sense of "having existed for a long time", not "tired" or "outdated") Fedora. I tried to think what I would say if somebody asked me what flavour I have installed on my laptop, and "traditional" is the word that comes to mind.

I'd vote for "traditional", even though it does't convey that other directories contain subsets of this. "Foundation" is also good.

Maybe we should collect idea here and open this up to a poll and just use whatever name people like the most?

"Collection" is still my preferred bikeshed color, but I'm open to other things.

I would suggest that "Foundation" is confusing simply because of Fedora's lack of a "Fedora Foundation" in our legal structure. But it would be less confusing than "Everything".

I would suggest that "Foundation" is confusing simply because of Fedora's lack of a "Fedora Foundation" in our legal structure. But it would be less confusing than "Everything".

Not to put too fine a point on it, but being worried about confusion with a non-existent thing seems... odd.

just to note here, this is not a trivial change, be aware we will need to change:

  • pungi needs code changes
  • mirrormanager will need changes
  • sync scripts in infra
  • websites
  • probibly docs

and probibly other places I am not sure of.

Are you saying that it's not worth the trouble unless we have a clearly superior name?

Maybe we should consider just adding a README file that says explains the historical naming. httpd listings will put the contents of README file in the directory listing automatically, so anybody browsing through will see it.

The mirrormanager change is literally s/Everything/Newthing/ — it's a change, but not a particularly large amount of work.

I don't know what's needed in pungi. I assume infra sync script changes are similar to mirrormanager.

I can handle docs and website changes.

Overall, sure, it's not trivial, but it's also not, like, at the level of a project. Let's not get crushed under the weight of all the stuff we do for legacy reasons.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but being worried about confusion with a non-existent thing seems... odd.

The concern is that people looking for such a thing will find this in search results, because now it would be an existent thing — just not one that they're looking for.

I would suggest "Base", except that seems kind of disingenuous when it's twenty thousand packages, many of them leaf applications.

7 days ago

Metadata Update from @zbyszek:
- Issue tagged with: meeting

I guess the new name for old stuff needs to be sanctioned by the Council and then the technical details about what needs to be changed is part of rel-eng.

That logic doesn't make sense to me. It's not "old stuff". The packages in Everything are used to build the rest of the Editions and spins. The addition of content in Fedora that isn't from Everything is relatively new. It certainly doesn't make the packages in Everything "old" or "classic". Both of those have a negative connotation that they are going away or somehow obsolete. That's not the case. The packages there will still be used as the foundation for almost everything else.

So let's rename it to AlmostEverything ;-) - I did not mean to use "old" as being worse but compared to Modules and OSTree (which is the new stuff), it is the old stuff. Also it is not the content that is described here but the method the content is prepared. So if we do not want a name based on the time it was invented, maybe we can fit the method in the name, such as "BaseRPMs" or "RPMCollection".

This was discussed in the FESCo meeting today:
- We'll return to this after F28 is released

6 days ago

Metadata Update from @zbyszek:
- Issue untagged with: meeting

I suggest that "Default" be used as the name. it is the default set of content you have available from a fedora install. It is quite a bit of work in the background, but mostly because there is likely places that have been forgotten have baked in information. on the releng side pungi should not need any code changes, the pungi configs will need changing and the syncing will need changing. while the syncying has been kept as simple as possible, it is a little bit fragile.

I can confirm that Pungi does not care about the name. Only configuration would need be updated, but code can remain as is.

fedora-repos packages needs to be updated too.

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