#194 Ask Fedora retrospective article
Closed: Fixed a year ago by sash713. Opened a year ago by alciregi.

It is nearly one year that the new Ask Fedora running on Discourse is in place.
What do you think about a retrospective article?

We could talk about the first steps. How we handled the concerns about the loss of askbot content (solution: quick docs for the most asked questions). How today it is a well accepted platform. Our efforts to don't consider such platform as a simple forum, but also a welcome place for potential contributors: not only a question and answers platform, not only technical assistance, but also invitations to file bugs on bugzilla, to contact teams, a place where we publicize events happening around the community (test days, elections).

As said in the issue #182, we could grab some statistics [1] like:
- how many users
- active users
- how many daily interactions
- topics marked as solved
- new users trend
- spammers :-)
- ...

[1] in this article I am not inclined to write a rank of most active users.

We could also write a post in the Staff category, inviting people to write their ideas for the article.


+1 Posted in the staff category on AskFedora too.

Whoops. I meant longue category

Thanks @alciregi!

I had a look. Some ideas:

  • So, I don't know how useful it is to go over the move again, so I would avoid any comparison with it being on askbot.
  • This is really just the staffs POV. We want to tell the community how AskFedora has been doing. (I don't know how we'd collect the users POV without a survey, and I don't think it is worth the effort).

So, maybe the article should just be focussed on the activity on the new Ask Fedora for a certain time period (since it began, or for the last six months). Just metrics and comments based on them will be good IMO.

What do you think?

Let's timebox this also. We'll start drafting on the 22nd of April. That gives us 1 week for ideas/discussion.

Metadata Update from @ankursinha:
- Issue tagged with: S: Needs-comment

a year ago

+1
No feedbacks from ask fedora lounge members so far... :-/

I pinged there also. Let's see :)

Since I have not been involved, this will give me a great overview of things
definitely a +1
(totally being lazy and selfish)

Well.

I wrote an early draft. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG/AskFedoraRetrospective2019

@hhlp sorry, are you ready to go with the statistics?

We have to decide which ones are interesting for the article.
I repeat my thought. In the article I would stay generic, without ranking the users [*]:
- total number of topics
- total number of replies
- total number of resolved topics
- top tags
- average number of new topics per month
- average number of reply per month
- average number of new users per month
- number of active users
- ...

[*] we could subsequently write a post highlighting some ranking (i.e. total post per user, total answer marked as solved per user, etc.) on Ask Fedora itself

Well.
I wrote an early draft. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG/AskFedoraRetrospective2019
@hhlp sorry, are you ready to go with the statistics?
We have to decide which ones are interesting for the article.
I repeat my thought. In the article I would stay generic, without ranking the users []:
- total number of topics
- total number of replies
- total number of resolved topics
- top tags
- average number of new topics per month
- average number of reply per month
- average number of new users per month
- number of active users
- ...
[
] we could subsequently write a post highlighting some ranking (i.e. total post per user, total answer marked as solved per user, etc.) on Ask Fedora itself

@alciregi Yep just give some days.... to meet your requirements

Regards.,

I almost forgot...

Where would you like the information??? here or directly in the wiki....

I almost forgot...
Where would you like the information??? here or directly in the wiki....

Where you wish.
Also a spreadsheet file is fine.

I almost forgot...
Where would you like the information??? here or directly in the wiki....

Where you wish.
Also a spreadsheet file is fine.

@alciregi Here is the data:

https://hhlp.fedorapeople.org/Join/ask-fedoraproject-org.ods

How many users by trust-level
Active users
How many daily interactions, (this is a very long list)
Topics marked as solved
    By Staff
    By Member
    Heroe's of Fedora
Posts created for period by Category/Sub-Category
spammers :-), (this is really difficult, all spammer are erase from the site)
...

spammers = 21 taken from here -> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/banned-and-deleted-accounts/3009/15

I think this is enough, for beginnig for a general view, we can make another round with:

  • total number of topics (included)
  • total number of replies
  • total number of resolved topics (included)
  • top tags
  • average number of new topics per month
  • average number of reply per month
  • average number of new users per month
  • number of active users (included)

Regards.,

Regards.,

@hhlp there are unclear data for me:

  • 659 is the total number of users, right?
  • active users: average score per post, what is that?
  • how many daily interactions <- it is empty
  • topics marked as solved <- topic solved or the post marked as solved [*]
  • Posts created for period by category -> what is the period in this case? since may 2019?

It would be interesting to have these data, maybe I'm unable to grab that from the spreadsheet:
- whole number of topics
- whole number of replies
- whole number of solved topics (marked as solved)

In addition:
In Posts created for period by category, it would be useful to have the number of posts for each language. There is in place, but it seems incomplete, isn't it?

@ankursinha when you have the time, could you take a look at the article in the parts marked with "-----------"?
Thanks.

Sure, looking at it now.

659 is the total number of users, right?

Yes., that right

active users: average score per post, what is that?

on reply count, likes, incoming links, bookmarks, average time and read count.

Based on this -> https://meta.discourse.org/t/score-score-for-a-post-how-is-this-calculated/40295/3

how many daily interactions <- it is empty

Yes., remember all data is in a YEAR from 2019-01-01 to 2019-12-31... maybe a long list and just now I don't know if I can get you this data/information.....

topics marked as solved <- topic solved or the post marked as solved [*]

The first one: -> topic solved

Topic: The collection of messages grouped together in a meaningful conversation, with a title, listed in a category, beginning with an Original Post, and including all replies in chronological order.

Post: Each element of a topic is referred to as a post. Each post has its own author and can be moved to a different topic if necessary, or even become the start of a new topic.

Posts created for period by category -> what is the period in this case? since may 2019?

Yes., all data is in a YEAR from 2019-01-01 to 2019-12-31 the months that we do not use on site count as ZERO and I will develop it like that for future years

It would be interesting to have these data, maybe I'm unable to grab that from the spreadsheet:

  • whole number of topics and - whole number of solved topics (marked as solved)

Posts-created-for-period and topics-marked-as-solved respectively

  • whole number of replies

I'm bit confusing about this because both TOPIC and POST have a Reply

I've updated the spread sheet, download it again

Regards.,

Thank you very much for the explanations.

I'm bit confusing about this because both TOPIC and POST have a Reply

Yeah. It is a matter of terminology. (Your reply explain that)
I mean the grand total, the sum of all the posts, all the single things written by the users, mmm,

But there is something strange. In the Italian category there are more than 2 topics

Aaaaah sorry. It is referred to 2019.
Ok

Here's an edited version @alciregi, please pick the bits you think are relevant. It's mostly cosmetic changes. The information remains the same:

{{draft}}

== Ask Fedora Retrospective ==

Around this month in 2019, we moved the Ask Fedora user support web site to a new platform. We archived the old askbot instance and we moved to Discourse.

=== Goals set ===

The goals of such move were various. Technical ones were important, but the least decisive, since similar to Askbot, the plan was to use a deployment that was hosted and supported for us. Askbot, while worked well enough, lacked certain features and a modern user interface that we thought was necessary for a good user experience. The main objectives were related to a new way to communicate and share knowledge. Discourse fit the bill very well for this. Similar to Askbot, where upstream hosted the instance for us, Discourse also allowed paid hostage. This freed up community resources that would otherwise be spent on non-trivial tasks of packaging, deploying, and maintaining the software ourselves.

Usually, when a user has a problem, they ask a question and await an answer. Generally, we notice that on support forums the questioner expect precise and concise sets of steps leading to the solution of their issue---somewhat like a support service of provided in industry. Since Askbot was a question and answer platform designed for questions to be answered, it did not lend itself well to discussions. It was designed for questions and solutions---not for discussions and troubleshooting that enabled users to converge on solutions.

Nobody in the community is expected to serve as a help desk operator. Similarly, it doesn't quite work when users act like costumers of a product, either. That's not how Free/Open source communities work. They work on a voluntary exchange of knowledge and ideas. No end user is a user in the commercial sense of the term. Obviously there are system rock stars, experts, developers and maintainers: such people has more experiences and knowledge than novices. But nobody should really be demanding an answers from them: we are all here to learn and share experiences, knowledge and to help each other.


So, we imagined something different---discussions instead of questions that expect answers. The main goals of the new forum platform were the discussion, involvement, and encouragement to learn and to participate in the community life. In Ask Fedora, we share tools and techniques to diagnose the problems, we invite people to file bugs instead of ranting, we push people toward the right documentation on docs.fedoraproject.org and if a document is outdated, we invite them to contribute. We also share community events where people could be easily involved (i.e. test days).
In short the new Ask Fedora is much more than a support forum, it is a channel for discussion based troubleshooting.

=== The beginning ===

Initially, many people raised various concerns about the value of information contained in the old platform and a series of concerns about search engines pointing to the old platform. These concerns were valid, but with the limited resources at our disposal, it was not possible to migrate the information. Given how fast Fedora moves, while some general queries and solutions remain relevant across releases, a lot of release specific information gets outdated quite quickly. So, it was decided to put all the available man-power toward the setting up of a new, fresh platform instead of spending it on the maintenance and migration of a lot of generally outdated information from an older platform.

A lot of time was spent evaluating the categories of the forum. Within the possibilities that Discourse allowed, we ended up with the smallest set of categories that would enable organisation of information without adding complexity that would confuse users. We preferred to cover the main areas: for each language there are two categories Install/Upgrade and Fedora Usage. A more detailed organisation of posts is mandated to the tags. In addition, another category is the Community related one (with the "On contributing to Fedora sub category"). 

To ensure that information that remained relevant to current releases, we, with the help of numerous forum users, identified and moved the most common and still up to date issues to the Fedora quick docs. Additionally, to ensure that there was no single point-of-contact (point-of-failure), we spent some time documenting necessary bits into a series of standard operating procedures (SOPs) https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ask-fedora-sops/

Since the Fedora community is global, the current category structure allows the splitting of the forum into smaller bits each dedicated to a particular language. It was important that all these languages have community members actively looking after and moderating them. So, with help from the community, we set up a few initial languages: English, Spanish, Italian, Persian, Traditional Chinese, Simplified Chinese. More languages can be supported through new categories, but we do make sure that the volunteers that step forward to maintain them are able to commit the necessary time and resources to the forum.

For more information on the discussions and process that we followed, you can read all the tickets related to Ask Fedora on pagure: https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issues?status=all&tags=C%3A+AskFedora

=== How it is going ===

The forum is running very well. There are new topics every day, and plenty of active polite and welcoming discussions. Flagged posts (posts reported by the users because not respecting the CoC or the common sense) are extremely rare. The English category is most active, with the "on using Fedora" perhaps receiving most posts. An active team of moderators help when needed. The Discourse trust system rewards active users, so we have a much larger team of moderators on the forum that when we had started---a good sign!

=== Some data/statistics ===

An important feature that attracted us towards Discourse was the possibility of gathering data on usage. This was not straightforward in Askbot. Here, we have some data from around May 2019 to May 2020.

There are 659 active users. With an average of 50 new users every month. (Note: the authentication system is limited to FAS).

Discourse is equipped with its own reward system. Like Fedora Badges, but it is not integrated with them. There are 4 levels called "trust levels". The more the users interact with the forum, the more they gains trust so they can level up. While more than 50 people easily reached level 2, the ones that reached level 3 are just two couple (users can loose their trust level if they don't maintain their activities over time). Finally, 21 spammers took the time to create FAS accounts to spam the forum. These were all detected, deleted from Askbot, and the FAS accounts reported to the infrastructure team as well.

Here the number of topics (posts) created under each category:

    a total of 995 topics in the English category
        723 in the "On using Fedora" subcategory
        262 in the "On installing or upgrading Fedora" subcategory

    73 topics in the whole "Community related discussions" category
    36 topics in the "Site feedback" category
    20 topics "Lounge" category
    12 topics "staff" category

These are the numbers of each language category:

    19 topics in the Spanish categories
    24 topics in the Persian categories
    18 topics in the Chinese categories
    2 topic in the Italian categories

These are the Totals:

    1199 topics
        169 Solved by Staff
        396 Solved by Members

As we can see, even non native English speaking people, prefer to ask questions in the English category, possibly because its more active.

@alciregi, your last data:

average number of new topics per month

2019-02 - 6
2019-03 - 2,833
2019-04 - 3,611
2019-05 - 12,903
2019-06 - 5,6667
2019-07 - 4,6129
2019-08 - 4,3548
2019-09 - 5,4483
2019-10 - 5,1724
2019-11 - 6,5
2019-12 - 5

Total Year Average: 5.9703

Regards.,

Only 6 new topics per month? I though much more

Ok.
We are nearly to go.

I added this last paragraph:

=== Last thoughts ===

For the future, we hope that Ask Fedora will be used even more. We ask the community members and the seasoned contributors to take a look to the topics and help other people with useful answers and discussions.

We think that Ask Fedora is not meant as a replacement for any other discussion channel. It is not the official Fedora support site. Many people feel more confortable using the mailing list (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users%40lists.fedoraproject.org/), other people prefer hanging out on Telegram (https://telegram.me/fedora) or on IRC (#fedora channel on Freenode), other people like other sites (Reddit, Stackexchange, etc.)
Each platform isn't meant to replace the other.

average number of new topics per month

@hhlp I need the last clarifications. When you have two minutes, could you ping me on Telegram/IRC?

In the meanwhile that @hhlp reviews the data, what do you think if we get the responsibility to submit the article to a team member that has never published a post on the community blog?

In the meanwhile that @hhlp reviews the data, what do you think if we get the responsibility to submit the article to a team member that has never published a post on the community blog?

@alciregi no problem from my side +1

in a eagle view 💯, reviewed and checked against the site, I updated the wiki again...

Captura_de_pantalla_de_2020-05-08_10-24-58.png

I'm off for the rest of the morning, I come back again in the afternoon

any doubt ping me.......

Regards.,

any doubt ping me.......

I regret, but the average monthly number is referred to what?
The daily average count of new topics?
Let's say December: average topic is 13, so we have an average of 13 topics each day for this month? Or 13 is the total number of topics created in December?
In any case something doesn't match. (I'm not a data scientist after all...)

any doubt ping me.......

I regret, but the average monthly number is referred to what?
The daily average count of new topics?
Let's say December: average topic is 13, so we have an average of 13 topics each day for this month? Or 13 is the total number of topics created in December?
In any case something doesn't match. (I'm not a data scientist after all...)

jejeje...

SUM Topics Day by Day in a month
The sum is: xx
Divide xx by Day's in a Month with Topics

For example Let's take the Month 2 February

  • Day 10 = 14 Topics
  • Day 12 = 2 Topics
  • Day 26 = 9 Topics
  • Day 27 = 6 Topics

Total Topics = 31
Total Number of Day's With Topics = 4

Avg. of the Month = Total Topcis / Total number of day's with Topics = 31 / 4 = 7.75 Rounded 8

Regards.,

Sorry but...
We have a total of 1574 topics
If there is an average of 15 daily topics, multiplying it by 310 days (Jan and part of Feb are excluded), it is more than 4500 topics.
Where I am wrong?

Well.....

We've have 12 month a total of 365 days - 31 from January is 334.

If we don't have a TOPIC is 0 and doesn't count.... so don't care about rest of the beginning of February...

What is true?

1.- 334 days in a year.
2.- 1574 Topics in total.

You can't transpolate this data in this way.... you have to consider:

  1. Not all days in the site have TOPIC as you can see in February.
  2. 1574 Topics is the Total, this doesn't mean that you have TOPIC every single day, and this is the KEY, so You don't know How many TOPIC do you have in a day?
  3. You don't have the Total number of day's with Topics
  4. You're working with RESULT, not with the SOURCE of the results.
  5. I don't know if there is a SECRET math or reverse engineering to GET the number of days with TOPIC based in it AVG.

Remember the Formula:

Avg. of the Month = Total Topics in a month / Total number of day's with Topics

Regards.,

Mmm. My math skills are so bad.
But if we have a total of 1574 topics. And we count 334 days.
We have 1574/334 = 4.7 topics per day, even if in a day we have 0 topics and in another one we have 10 topics. Isn't it?
That is 1574/11 = 143 average number of topics in a month
143/30 days (supposing that each month has 30 days) = 4.7 topics each day

I really don't understand avg_topic column with the average count of 14.9 topics each day

The formula you hilight is like (i.e.)
Total days in a month 30
Total topics this month 10
There is only a day in this month where people wrote something. 10 topics in this day an 0 posts in the rest of the month.
The formula leads to 10/1 that is an average of 10 topics each day. This is an unreliable way to calculate a daily average imho.

At the end of the day I propose to drop such avg_topic from the article. What do you think?

One last question @hhlp
Near each hero :smile: there is a number: what is that?

One last question @hhlp
Near each hero 😄 there is a number: what is that?

do you refer askfedora heroe's????

number of TOPIC resolved by each member in a year the first 8....

Regards.,

I delete the average, I don't think I can give you that number before publish.... some problem here I need to investigate more about this, the discourse database and SQL average function....

Regards.,

Thank you @hhlp
So we could consider the data in the wiki as definitive?

Thank you @hhlp
So we could consider the data in the wiki as definitive?

Yes

I delete the average, I don't think I can give you that number before publish.... some problem here I need to investigate more about this, the discourse database and SQL average function....
Regards.,

this is what I get about in average in spanish category I've had todo the same things for all categories:

https://hhlp.fedorapeople.org/Join/spanish.ods

now, I've added to my todo list.....

Regards.,

In the meanwhile that @hhlp reviews the data, what do you think if we get the responsibility to submit the article to a team member that has never published a post on the community blog?

So the article is basically ready.

What would be nice: an image, but it is not so important. Personally, I have no idea.

In addition, as said in the other comment, it would be nice that some member of the Join SIG that has never published an article in the community blog would take care of the process.
(I was thinking to @alishapapun because It's been a while since I've seen her around, but besides the fact that she is busy outside the community, I wasn't aware that she already published a lot of articles 😅)

So, who want to take care of the publication?

@sash713 @nasirhm
How it is going?
I think that there is nothing more to add to the article.
If you agree, let's start with the process to publish the article, if you have not started yet.
Let us know the progresses :-)

@sash713 @nasirhm
How it is going?
I think that there is nothing more to add to the article.

Sure, then I shall begin with the publishing process

Metadata Update from @alciregi:
- Issue assigned to sash713

a year ago

Hey everyone,
The wordpress article article has been written, you can find the preview here : https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/?p=8846&preview=1&_ppp=1c3ab9b139

I have also written a topic on discussion.f.o https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/review-and-publish-ask-fedora-retrospective-2019/19754

Metadata Update from @sash713:
- Issue close_status updated to: Fixed
- Issue status updated to: Closed (was: Open)

a year ago

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