#9226 Relocate Dogtag PKI's four public mailing lists from "www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo" to "lists.fedorahosted.org"
Opened 3 months ago by mharmsen. Modified 2 months ago

Describe what you would like us to do:

I would like to move the following four PUBLIC UPSTREAM mailing lists from the "redhat.com" email domain to the "lists.fedorahosted.org" email domain prefixing all of the new email lists with "dogtag-":

* move "pki-announce@redhat.com" and rename it to "dogtag-pki-announce@lists.fedorahosted.org" 
* move "pki-commits@redhat.com" and rename it to "dogtag-pki-commits@lists.fedorahosted.org"
* move "pki-devel@redhat.com" and rename it to "dogtag-pki-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org"
* move "pki-users@redhat.com" and rename it to "dogtag-pki-users@lists.fedorahosted.org"

To assist with this effort, the Mail Services team on redhat.com has stated that they can provide the following:

* member list(s) for you to import into the new lists (standard csv format)
* the mailing list archives in a .mbox format

When do you need this to be done by? (YYYY/MM/DD)

As soon as possible but no hard deadline.


@abompard @misc @duck we would like some input on what would be needed to do this.

Metadata Update from @smooge:
- Issue tagged with: high-trouble, lists, medium-gain, ops

3 months ago

Metadata Update from @smooge:
- Issue priority set to: Waiting on Assignee (was: Needs Review)

3 months ago

@smooge instead of the member list it would be way easier if we got the pck files containing all the config (members, moderators, owners, list settings, bans etc). Also the usual MM@->MM3 import tool asks for it so we would not have to work around it.

@smooge instead of the member list it would be way easier if we got the pck files containing all the config (members, moderators, owners, list settings, bans etc). Also the usual MM@->MM3 import tool asks for it so we would not have to work around it.

I have asked the current administrators of the four "pki-*" mailing lists to see if they can provide this.

They replied:

I have no access to lists.fedoraproject.org so I can't create mailing lists there. What I can do for you is to remove those lists from our domain and provide you with archives and eventually configurations incl. membership. Having those data you can ask fedoraproject admins to recreate list on their side. Will this help?

To which I replied:

I understand that you have no access to fedoraproject.org. I think what the fedoraproject.org folks believe that redhat.com is running an earlier version of MailMan (perhaps 1.x) while they are running MailMan 3.x, and they are requesting that instead of delivering "member lists in csv" format, that they would like a ".pck file" instead since their import tool is asking for files of this format? They did not speak about the ".mbox" archive yet.

Does this make sense, and if so, could I have the four ".pck" files as a start?

Yes, I believe (according to the UI look) that RH is running Mailman 2. Fedora folks (and OSPO folks) will take care of importing the list in lists.fedoraproject.org.

Let's clarify the files we need:
- /var/lib/mailman/lists/<list>/config.pck
- /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox

Let's be clear: the public mbox export of the lists (in the UI) is not the same as the one above and is not adequate for import.

Regards.
\_o<

duck -- I added your comment to the associated RH help desk ticket; now we wait -- thanks!

Wouldn't these be lists.fedorahosted.org mailing lists? Or are we just going with lists.fedoraproject.org from now on? There's also lists.pagure.io too...

Whether I go to "https://lists.fedorahosted.org" or "https://lists.fedoraproject.org", the only difference that I see is slight changes to the "histograms".

The Dogtag PKI project source code is actually "hosted" on github, not pagure, so I proposed that "lists.fedoraproject.org" was the correct realm?

lists.fedoraproject.org is usually reserved for Fedora Project specific lists, lists.fedorahosted.org and lists.pagure.io are the "everything else" list options.

Per ngompa comments -- changing realm from "lists.fedoraproject.org" to "lists.fedorahosted.org".

Sorry for my confusion.

I will make the necessary changes to the internal ticket, although I am still waiting for the ".pck" and ".mbox" files for all four lists.

I have been provided four ".tgz" files containing the configurations and mboxes; these are located on my google drive in My Drive:

  • pki-devel.tgz
  • pki-users.tgz
  • pki-commits.tgz
  • pki-announce.tgz

What is the best way to provide you these files so that you can install them?

@smooge who is going to make the import? We can help but we do not have any access.

These lists are in use I suppose, so people are going to add new posts, and the import procedure is not incremental (I tried and that did not go well). So this means we can work on a separate instance to prepare the import procedure but we'll have to warn people that during a certain timeframe they must stop posting while we do the final migration. that also means coordinating to get the latest files from IT.

Also you might want to keep the archives on IT side to avoid breaking web searches. Alternatively we could host them on the Fedora server and ask for a redirect of /pipermail/<list> for these lists to the new URL with the list renaming in mind.

@duck FYI smooge is going to be AFK for the coming two weeks, so I doubt he is the right person to ping for this at this time :)

@pingou right, totally forgot about it. But who is Fedora can help us with this project then? We could wait for Smooge to come back but that's going to feel long to the dogtag folks.

@duck, @pingou: if @smooge would have the easiest time doing this, the Dogtag team can wait; his name seems quite familiar to me, and I think that I worked with him on a project long ago.

Although we have had these lists basically forever, folks still get confused on whether the lists are public or private, so we determined that moving these public lists to Fedora was the right thing to do. Consequently, once the four new "dogtag-*" email lists are created, we have requested Red Hat IT to bounce any emails sent to the original emails with the following messages:

  • an email sent to "pki-announce@redhat.com" would "bounce" returning the email message
    "The address 'pki-announce@redhat.com' has been changed; please use 'dogtag-pki-announce@lists.fedorahosted.org'
    instead."
  • an email sent to "pki-commits@redhat.com" would "bounce" returning the email message
    "The address 'pki-commits@redhat.com' has been changed; please use 'dogtag-pki-commits@lists.fedorahosted.org'
    instead."
  • an email sent to "pki-devel@redhat.com" would "bounce" returning the email message
    "The address 'pki-devel@redhat.com' has been changed; please use 'dogtag-pki-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org' instead."
  • an email sent to "pki-users@redhat.com" would "bounce" returning the email message
    "The address 'pki-users@redhat.com' has been changed; please use 'dogtag-pki-users@lists.fedorahosted.org' instead.

If it would make things easier, and @smooge is amenable, I could add him to the watchlist of my Red Hat helpdesk ticket, and perhaps some coordination of moving the lists with the Red Hat IT team would make things go smoother?

Please let me know -- thanks!

So moving to mailman3 does not need me to be involved. I have not done much with the mailman3 servers so will be learning imports and transfers just like anyone else. If possible I would recommend @pingou or @mobrien scheduling time with @misc and working out what is needed to get this done and documented.

So moving to mailman3 does not need me to be involved. I have not done much with the mailman3 servers so will be learning imports and transfers just like anyone else. If possible I would recommend @pingou or @mobrien scheduling time with @misc and working out what is needed to get this done and documented.

@pingou or @mobrien -- would you like to be added to the watchlist of my Red Hat helpdesk ticket?

Having not heard back from @pingou or @mobrien . . .
@smooge - would you be willing to be added to the watchlist of my Red Hat helpdesk ticket?

@duck - I have not heard back from @smooge, @pingou, or @mobrien , and Red Hat internal is considering closing the ticket.

I would hate to have to start this all over again; is there anyone else willing to help out with migration of these four email lists?

I did not see this ping 2 weeks ago which is on me. Please add me to the watchlist and I will let them know we are under a series of infrastructure freezes until late October. We also do not have a staging system to try out imports so this is going to be harder to do than we would like.

@mharmsen Quack, Misc and I are here to help. We suggested possible paths to @smooge and we can step in when the freeze is over. I agree with testing the migration since there are often problems that may alt it because MM2 was a bit lax and MM3 may not always accept broken headers (for eg.). We have script to fix some problems but we might find new ones. So we'll need to ask them for data at least twice, once for import testing and once for the final migration.

@smooge, @duck, et. al. -- thank you guys! I have added @smooge to the internal ticket watch list!

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