#541 New Fedora Loves Python Brochure
Opened 2 years ago by churchyard. Modified 3 months ago

We'd like to have a new Fedora ♥ Python Brochure.

There is currently one available, but it has several issues:

  • the talking points there are outdated and some of them were never actually interesting
    • at Flock 2016 we decided to put together an actual list of interesting talking points for Fedora ♥ Python
    • the talking points are now available at fedoralovespython.org
  • the brochure should have those talking points
  • the brochure should "link" to fedoralovespython.org, not fedoraproject.org/wiki/Python because the latter is not much appealing for potential users, but rather current Fedora contributors interested joining the SIG.
  • while I personally love the Fedora + snakes graphics, I'm confident that the Fedora Loves Python sticker design sends a louder message
    • on the other hand some of the other images on fedoralovespython.org are not so appealing (improvement are more than welcomed)
    • combining the designs might be a challenge but maybe at least the title page can have the Fedora ♥ Python image and the snakes can be used inside?

In perfect world, the brochure would be generated from the talking points so if there is an update to the text, such as fixing a typo or updating Python version, the brochure would be easy to update without manual labor. However I see that this would require some serious TeX or XML/SVG kung fu skills.

Deadline

Given the fact that PyCon US, EuroPython, PyCon CZ and PyCon SK all already happened this year and PyCon PL is happening too soon, I don't know what would be the next Python related event where Fedora has it's presence. For me personally that would be PyCon SK 2018 happening in March 2018. However, there might be other Python events where Fedora goes I don't know about.

Therefor I'd like to request this early, so we can have a discussion about it and make it perfect and I set a soft deadline to the end of 2017, which i think is quite doable. If not, let me know and we can move it to February.

  • Deadline for design to be sent to printer: end of 2017

  • Deadline for items to be shipped and ready to hand out: March 2018

  • If you can, please provide us with example photos of items that are similar to the result you're looking for: current and past brochures, #fedoralovespython on Twitter

  • Printer contact information if available: in Europe, we usually printed this trough @kmrstiko and the Brno office. Might have been Serigrafika.

  • The text that shall be included: Talking points from fedoralovespython.org, contact info from the current brochure (mainly mailing list, IRC channel)

  • Is this for an event? For multiple. PyCons, EuroPython and probably also events not specific to Python.

  • Location, date, and website/wiki page for the event:

  • Is this in a language other than English? No.

'''Size requirements, can be standard paper size or width and height'''

I believe the brochure was originally prepared for US Letter size paper and later adapted for A4 as well, however it's hard to find traces of that and there is only one version at the wiki. For us in Europe, A4 makes sense, and if that should be printable in US as well. The paper type of the current brochure as printed for PyCon US 2016 as well as the batch printed in (for) Brno was quite fine, however I'm not sure what was the weight. It was glossy paper, heavier than regular office printer paper.

Thanks.


Hi @churchyard - the reason I created the current Fedora loves Python logo is because the Python logo trademark guidelines seem to discourage the usage of the logo in association with other logos such as what you've created. See https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/ - we'd have to ask for permission to use your design. Do you have contacts at the PSF to talk to about this?

But confusingly similar derived logos are not allowed. This includes entwining Python logos with other logos, or connecting them together in a confusing manner.

This is 100 % not entwining. I also don't think it's confusing, but let's ask the PSF. (I know that if I ask and they say no, we'd probably have to drop the picture from the website as well, but since they are our friends, I rather ask than hide the fact we are using it from them.)

Edit: Sent an e-mail to PSF-trademarks @python.org, let's wait for their reply. I'll post it here.

The logo we created uses the Fedora snake, not the Python logo snake; the graphic design of the snakes is completely different to get away from violating their guidelines.

original e-mail

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [psf-trademarks] Fedora Loves Python image
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:18:54 +0200
From: M.-A. Lemburg mal@python.org
Organization: Python Software Foundation (PSF)
To: Miro Hrončok mhroncok@redhat.com, PSF-trademarks@python.org

Hello Miro,

we are happy to approve your use of the logo.

Thanks,

--
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

On 15.08.2017 22:43, Miro Hrončok wrote:

Hello,

we are using a Fedora Loves Python image [1] to promote Python on
Fedora. Today, a member of our design team raised a question whether
this is not against the Python logo trademark guidelines.

Now I read it that entwining Python logos with other logos, or
connecting them together in a confusing manner is not allowed.

While this is clearly not entwining and I am confident it's not
confusing in any way, I'd still like to know whether it's OK or not.

[1] https://github.com/fedora-python/fedora-loves-python

Thanks,

Metadata Update from @ryanlerch:
- Issue assigned to ryanlerch

2 years ago

Thanks @ryanlerch for taking this.

hey @ryanlerch this came up in triage today. any updates?

hacking on a few ideas for this one -- nothing posted as yet

i did, however add the old versions of the brochure into a new repo so we can track them, and this is where i will put the new brochure.

https://pagure.io/fedora-design/fedora-loves-python-brochure

I am interested in having this translated and printed to be used in LATAM / Brazilian Community.

@itamarjp do you think having the website https://fedoralovespython.org/ itself translated would be a good idea?

Metadata Update from @duffy:
- Issue tagged with: triaged

a year ago

Ryan, would you be able to come up with some draft before the end of the year?

Hi. Any update here? Thanks.

PyCon Slovakia happens in ~6 weeks. I suppose we need at least 1 month to print those on a fancy printer. Is there anything I can do to speed this up?

sorry about the delay! will get on this this week.

Okies, Have done a first pass on this with a simple design:

SVGs are available in the repo here:
https://pagure.io/fedora-design/fedora-loves-python-brochure

inside.pngoutside.png

Thank you! Will check it out in detail and ask others from the SIG to review as well.

Generally I love the design of the inside, but not so much of the outside. It feels like a swimming pool or aquarium brochure to me, or at least that's the first thing I think of when I see it: water.

  • The front page looks a bit boring compared to previous one. The back page is close to empty.
  • if this is supposed to be folded like the previous one, I don't think that the URLs that spread across the thirds make sense.
  • The previous version had some nice things at outer back, such as getfedora link and fedora logo, CC license and the QR code (I don't think that one is necesery). Now it seems just empty.
  • There are some typos inside, but let's focus on the design for now.

Generally I love the design of the inside, but not so much of the outside. It feels like a swimming pool or aquarium brochure to me, or at least that's the first thing I think of when I see it: water.

The front page looks a bit boring compared to previous one. The back page is close to empty.
if this is supposed to be folded like the previous one, I don't think that the URLs that spread across the thirds make sense.
The previous version had some nice things at outer back, such as getfedora link and fedora logo, CC license and the QR code (I don't think that one is necesery). Now it seems just empty.
There are some typos inside, but let's focus on the design for now.

Okies! yeah, was lacking a bit of content for the back, so just went for the URLs -- will add back the fedora Logo, and the other items from the 2.0 version.

The "wave" was kinda supposed to be sorta a snake of sorts, so might try to make it more, snakey. :)

any other ideas for the front (happy to try something completly different here too)

@ryanlerch what if on the back cover the white 'snake' wave has a head that looks back towards the front page? heheheh

i dont know about the developer info url spanning two panes.... is it possible to make a shorturl? i dont think ppl are gonna type all that

@sam08 also noted the title boxes in the right col aren't aligned to the paragraphs

okies, tried to make the wave more snakey. also added the getfedora link, logo, and CC license to the back cover, and shortened the URLs (these are just placeholders really, we can choose a different shortener i reckon)

any other thoughts or ideas? happy to try something different for the front if you have any simple ideas -- just remember we will probably need to keep the colours to a minimum for ease of printing too.

outside.png

Nice improvement.

Nitpick: The CC license has mixed up versions.

I like the back side (getfedora.org) and I don't think we need 3 urls in the left pane. Maybe it can look the same as the middle pane and just show the fedora loves python logo once again with fedoralovespython.org (i.e. reuse the style of the middle pane)?

If that would make the pane very empty an IRC / mailing list info can be added to the bottom (bellow the snake).

Also, technically the Fedora Loves Python pic is Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International as noted in the source repo, the text in the brochure is also licensed with CC BY-SA (as noted on fedoralovespython.org footer). It would make it easier and legally more appropriate if is the entire brochure simply reuses that license.

If that would make you uncomfortable, I could possibly lower the license of the sticker, however the text was contributed by several contributors.

Okices, happy to make the license CC-BY-SA -- changed the license on there to reflect that.

Also did the other changes requested to the frontpage.

outside.png

I love it. Will proofread the inside today.

PR merged. When I open the file in Inkscape, I son't see it nicely, maybe because I miss some fonts etc. Could you post the inside preview once more? And probably a printable PDF with vectorized fonts.

We need to check "also noted the title boxes in the right col aren't aligned to the paragraphs" (@duffy).

Thanks.

will do.

do you have any specifications from the printer regarding formats and colours and sizes?

No idea yet, but please make it A4.

PyCon SK is in less than 2 weeks. Could you please provide the preview and PDFs ASAP? Thank you.

sorry about this, missed these updates!

Do you have any information about the formats and colours required by your printer? How many colours, and the dimenstions required for each panel (i assume they are slightly different sizes to allow for the folds) Once we have those, i can finalise the design and colours.

No I don't. I took the design as per https://pagure.io/fedora-design/fedora-loves-python-brochure/pull-request/2, I've installed all the fonts and exported a regular PDF from Inkscape. I gave it to the printer via @kmrstiko (if anyone knows what you've asked, it's her). Turned out pretty good https://twitter.com/FedoraCZ/status/972061153709953025

I think this is fully delivered and billed. @kmrstiko and @churchyard please confirm. I am updating hte budget.

Nope. this is not delivered on the design side. There is pull request open, no cmyk pdf with fold marks etc., no design approval. We printed it despite the design team have never approved any final version of this, because we needed it. As for budget for that, I have no idea (it happened too magically), yet the design ticket is not a proper place to discuss that.

Nope. this is not delivered on the design side. There is pull request open, no cmyk pdf with fold marks etc., no design approval. We printed it despite the design team have never approved any final version of this, because we needed it. As for budget for that, I have no idea (it happened too magically), yet the design ticket is not a proper place to discuss that.

Understood. I'll deal with the budget side. On the design side I hope that @ryanlerch can update us.

@mleonova can you help with process here?

@bex somehow I totally missed your message. I'll bring this up at the next design meeting.

Sorry about the delay. Is there any update on the formats / sizes / bleeds and colour requirements from the printer? This is kind of essential before getting it print-ready.

I don't understand this domain. We printed it quite fine as is. I assume others will print this as well. How do we make this "universal"?

What do I need to do to make this happen?

@churchyard I see that @ryanlerch has asked 3 times for dimensions, in each of his 3 last comments Here's the thing.... depending on the equipment the vendor has, the dimensions / margins for the folds can be different. It's hard for either me or @ryanlerch to know how EMEA printers (or even in whichever country they are being printed, which is unclear) typically have the fold margins set up or what their equipment is capable of.

The reason we ask for specs or vendor contact is so we dont have to redo work. There isnt a single person on the Fedora design team paid or volunteer who does this work full time. So having to realign and re prep for print an item like this is a huge hassle and time sink we cant afford. When the margins and fold dimensions have to be redrawn depending on how much of a delta it is it can mean significant redesign and even text editing to fit.

We are happy to chase down the dimensions directly w a vendor if their contact info is provided.

And I've replied several times as well: I have no idea what the dimensions are supposed to be: I need an approved universal design anybody around the globe can use.

Can you help me getting the dimensions for that?

I can most likely get you the dimensions for this one printer in Czech Republic or Slovakia to answer the question, but once somebody wants to print this in the US or Asia, the dimensions will most likely not work for them. Do i understand this right?

Note that the printer in here was able to print this as is without any more info from the design team or me. Do I get the dimensions by carefully measuring the print and fold, or is that a bad idea?

Also note that I'm extremely grateful that the design team is working on this and I love the design provided so far. It's just that it's frustrating to open a relatively simple PR and have it 7 months without any response.

I've e-mailed @kmrstiko who has the printer contact information and asked:

What were the dimensions of the print? At what positions were the folds made? How many colors were used?

If answers to those questions will help this, great. Yet I repeat that the printer was capable of figuring this on their own (and the Fedora logo didn't turn out purple or ellipse-shaped).

Also note that I'm extremely grateful that the design team is working on this and I love the design provided so far. It's just that it's frustrating to open a relatively simple PR and have it 7 months without any response.

@churchyard there is no "universal" design. US Americans using letter, rest of the world uses A paperformat. US Americans live also behind the moon, when it comes to colors. While in Europe I often have to give an profiled (like ECI RGBv2) PDF, Americans still want CMYK (even the printer processes itself on an RGB monitor ;) ) Also the bleed differs from printer to printer. What the printer did or does when you give him a smaller file without bleed, he scales it up and that has nothing to do with ellipse-shaped bubbles or purple ones. Ask yourself the question what happens if you scale up an image what happens... Sure a lot of people recognize the quality loosage but people like me do

@churchyard per your comments in the council ticket we have sent this for print at the printer we used last time. Do we need to halt that job? If not, we expect to use the pdfs you referenced to get the same quality output.

@bex That works for me. Could you get the info requested here from the printer?

I've got from @kmrstiko that the folds were 9.9 cm - 9.9 cm - 9.7 cm, one fold occupied cca 0.5 mm.

I've got from @kmrstiko that the folds were 9.9 cm - 9.9 cm - 9.7 cm, one fold occupied cca 0.5 mm.

@churchyard I made it simple I just putted into google "Druckerei" and took the first result (of course its a german, as my browser is set to this language) and now I took a screenshot for you to understand what we want from you
Bildschirmfoto_vom_2018-10-16_20-40-48.png.png

You can see "Beschnitt" is the german word for bleed, thats where we have to put design so that they can cut it without "white borders" and Abstand means the margin, thats the space we have to leave with text to the border so that it not get cutted. You can maybe also see under "Farbmodus" that they accept FOGRA51 and 52 depending on the paper which is used.

It could be so easy, just say "hey this printing company we gonna use, and we want this format" and we find the information we need

Ask yourself the question what happens if you scale up an image what happens...

It's bigger? I mean this is a vector image anyway, isn't it?

I'm trying to find out what printer we used and what printer we are going to use, yet @bex might already know.

It sounds like we may have some cross efforts going on. I believe we get some work back from the printer on Wednesday. I propose that we see what that looks like and if we have actually solved this already or not. From there, if there is a problem, we can ensure we know what failed and get the right kind of information so Design can help us further. Unless there were changes to the brochure that are not yet done or there were problems we didn't know about with the last set we may actually just be ok.

"we may actually just be ok" is what I'm trying to communicate here since https://pagure.io/design/issue/541#comment-516910

@gnokii hey this printing company we gonna use, and we want this in A4 format

Ask yourself the question what happens if you scale up an image what happens...

It's bigger? I mean this is a vector image anyway, isn't it?

can be a vector but must not be. I think you have some brain so use it, I put you text on a picture and I am so intelligent and leave 5mm margin. Now the printer comes and scales it up to fix the missing bleed, what will happen ;)

Ask yourself the question what happens if you scale up an image what happens...

It's bigger? I mean this is a vector image anyway, isn't it?
I'm trying to find out what printer we used and what printer we are going to use, yet @bex might already know.

@churchyard we are happy to provide printer ready output for regional req if provided those specs. typically at both rht and for fedora we produce region-specific files. unfortunately there is no universal standard as @gnokii noted. adding complication is that there are diff method for trifold! sometimes depending on the vendor they modify the artwork to fit their spec but depending on the quality of their in house designers, results can vary wildly. we prefer for as little proprietary tools to touch our files as possible and to have control over the final output.

@bex @kmrstiko can any of you please query the requested information when you communicate with the printer company?

I'll follow up on the printer specs for the printer in Brno so we can finalize print files for here. If you would like, please feel free to assign this ticket to me.

@bex Any update on the requested information?

I have compared the print with an office A4 paper and the overal size is the same.

Would a scan of the printed leaflet help here?

Per the printer, the specs are:

width of folds: 9,95 cm, 9,95 cm, 9,8 cm
bleed: 2,5 cm each side
File format: PDF preferred, SVG not usable

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