This event doesn't seem to be really aligned with our areas of focus (Editions and Objectives). It tangentially mentions the Fedora Workstation Edition, but then goes on to emphasize how we will be distributing spins to people. This isn't where the project wants to be spending its money. The bulk of the audience seems to be users looking for a general desktop, which while an admirable goal, is not a focus of the Fedora Project. We make a workstation. I strongly support the contributors who are producing the various general desktop spins and I encourage them to go forth and find their audiences. I don't see Fedora as having an obligation to pay for them to do so. If I have a vote on this event, as currently scoped, I am -1.

Brian,
Was the Editions and objectives part of the mindshare meeting that recently ended, I have not see any write up yet with these goals nor has there been any communications directed to us likewise. I aligned this event from past data collected and what the users are interested in. If there are new golas please share with us in NA.

v/r
Andrew

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Exelbierd" pagure@pagure.io
To: award3535@tds.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:26:57 AM
Subject: [ambassadors-na/tasks] Issue #194: Southeast LinuxFest 2018 Budget request

bex added a new comment to an issue you are following:
This event doesn't seem to be really aligned with our areas of focus (Editions and Objectives). It tangentially mentions the Fedora Workstation Edition, but then goes on to emphasize how we will be distributing spins to people. This isn't where the project wants to be spending its money. The bulk of the audience seems to be users looking for a general desktop, which while an admirable goal, is not a focus of the Fedora Project. We make a workstation. I strongly support the contributors who are producing the various general desktop spins and I encourage them to go forth and find their audiences. I don't see Fedora as having an obligation to pay for them to do so. If I have a vote on this event, as currently scoped, I am -1.

To reply, visit the link below or just reply to this email
https://pagure.io/ambassadors-na/tasks/issue/194

As I understand it, the Mindshare committee is working on their outcome reports.

My general thinking on regional Linux fests is that:

• Speakers are better than booths. The booth traffic is often job-seekers (not relevant), distro-hoppers (neither us nor them get much out of it), or existing Fedora fans...
  *... who would be better served by a birds-of-a-feather session or some other kind of associated get-together (the original "Fedora Activity Day" idea might fit)
• Since they are regional, I don't think we should fund travel above a few hundred dollars.

@mattdm If you look at the past 5 years the travel has been minimum, considering that nb has his job pay for the entire trip, and the others have less than 200.00 in travel costs, the rest is in lodging. The booth traffic at SELF in the past has not been job seekers, but more technically question orientated towards Fedora. I would love to have a FAD but that would require a larger budget for travel of those ambassadors in my area and from farther north. So I get the feeling that we are not going to attend regional events anymore. I have been an enthusiastic supporter of Fedora and thoroughly enjoy working the booth and promoting Fedora. I am now beginning to to question why I am volunteering

@mattdm In the past, @jbwillia has spoke about Ham Radio, I have spoke about GPG, I think @jbwillia may be planning to speak about the Fedora Respins that he does (same as the original live images but with the current updates applied). I may submit a talk this year, I'm not sure.

@jbwillia and I also run the Ham Radio License Exams at SELF every year, and I coordinate the GPG Key Signing event.

@award3535 If we are only needing 2 hotel rooms, hotel should be cheaper than the $1200 you requested, right?

@mattdm @bex Jeremy Sands has offered to give us a free bronze sponsorship for SELF, since we usually speak and we do the Ham Radio Exams and GPG Key Signing events, so that will save us the $500 that was requested for that.

I am bringing some of the content of an email thread into this conversation as it has been split.

Someone wrote:

I think Fedora is very interactive at SELF. I'm not sure how many "new users/contributors" we gain, I don't know of a good way to measure that, although I do know when I have been at our table, I have seen people that have just came to the event because they are local and heard about the event, and don't really even know much about Linux, and we show them Fedora on the laptop and they see how easy it is to use and decide they might try it. That can produce new users.

I understand that. Is going this the best way to attract converters? Are they converting workstations?

I think there is something to be said about traditional Linuxfests, I think yes, it is hard to convert people to using Fedora, since most people at these events LFNW, OLF, SELF, etc already use Linux and it’s hard to get people to change from their preferred distribution. I do think there is some value in us still attending (at least some of) these events. For one, we do experience the people like I mentioned above.

Is this activity the best use of our limited resources? Could we take our limited contributor attention, time, and money and go after low hanging fruit instead?

We also assist numerous people with their problems running Fedora. This both can help people who might otherwise decide to switch back to Windows or something, and, I think it further helps us reinforce one of our 4 foundations, Friends. It helps us to show off, in my opinion, one of the strong points of our distribution, our community, and how we care about our users. We do also meet a lot of people who have questions about various topics in Fedora and we help them work through whatever problem they are having. They then leave very happy because in some cases, they have been working for a while and haven't been able to figure out the solution to their problem. I think this can help build our users also, because if they get too frustrated, they might decide to try another distro.

I agree that helping people is a great aspect of our community. Would we do better to not be annual tech support and help these folks actually join our community and get community support? We seem to be making a lot of use of our limited resources trying to keep people barely off of other alternatives. Is this the best use of our limited contributor attention, time, and money?

This was written in response to the statement that many (most?) other distros had stopped attending the event:

I think we have a different approach than some of the other distros with regards to having a booth at SELF. Ubuntu I don't think really manned theirs much when they were there, they just had a table with brochures on it, and then they had a drawing for a hat or something. We always have someone at our booth, usually multiple people, and we actually engage with our audience and show them Fedora, and assist them with any problems they might be experiencing. I think that is why we are so warmly received at SELF, since we actually have more content than just a booth with brochures.

This doesn't really address why they stopped attending though. They either ran out of their limited resources or decided this audience wasn't important. How do we know that this audience is on message for us to use our limited resources for?

In response to a move toward workstation promotion instead of spins:

I agree with workstation, and you know as well as I that event attendees are not interested in modularity and that the GNOME workstation is not very popular there and what difference does that make if you still promote Fedora with another desktop environment. But I will change the focus to primarily workstation. But I see us deterring attendees away from our area/booth for the same.

If we aren't going to find our audience here, this seems like an indicator that this not the right event for us. Even with the change to a workstation focus it sounds like there are serious concerns that it is the wrong message for this event. I am uncomfortable with changing focus to be perceived as meeting a messaging goal while also feeling like those doing it don't think it will work.

Regarding the budget: Even with the free sponsorship and the reduction in travel costs we are still looking at ~$1000 in travel costs + swag drawn from our inventory. We have limited contributor attention, time, and money. Is sending all of this to a local show good? Do we have any feel for how many non-locals will be in attendance? Is this really having a multi-state draw in a way that has a greater impact for Fedora than multiple local events held by our contributors near where they live?

@jbwillia, Nick indicated that you might be speaking on Fedora and Ham Radio? I think a talk like that would be valuable and in line with the mission if it is focused on the "enables software developers and community members to build tailored solutions for their users" part of the mission.

That is, focus on how Fedora enables you to build cool, useful stuff for a community you're involved in. Make the primary talk audience anyone with an interest in doing something similar, whether it's Rust development or Arduino hacking or whatever. Use Robotics, Astronomy, Python as other quick examples. Of course, show off what the Ham SIG has done — but aim for more than just the people who are specifically interested in that.

It also looks from the prospectus that the organizers at least expect a large portion of systems administrator and IT ops attendees. If that's truly the case, we should also be emphasizing Fedora Server and moduarity. Perhaps we could have a talk on that?

Why does Fedora attend?
Southeast LinuxFest draws from several surrounding states. Attending this event enables us to demonstrate the powerful and versatile Workstation, Server, and Atomic operating system software offered from Fedora.
What is the focus of the event?
Our focus this year is going to be on Workstation, although we would also like to talk to people about Modularity, since this is planned for the Fedora 28 release. This is a prime opportunity to showcase what Fedora Workstation offers to the everyday user and to the system administrator looking to deploy new software on their company’s network (which also presents a great opportunity to showcase Server and Modularity).
How does our attendance at this event build users of or contributors to specific Fedora solutions — and why are those particular solutions strategically important?
This event has a unique way of drawing individuals from different areas around the southeast. Many travel from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee. The areas listed do not have Free and Open Source events where attendees can learn or contribute. With such are large area of Linux users that attend the event in Charlotte the opportunity to reach the widespread area and promote the Fedora Workstation. When looking at the Ambassadors membership areas there are very few from (if any) from Florida, Alabama, Kentucky, and Tennessee. This is strategically important since the event focuses on areas that are not routinely focused on Linux distributions.
How does our attendance at this event build user of or contributors to the Fedora platform overall?
Southeast LinuxFest is centered on the everyday user and tailored to those who are just starting out or just want to learn more about the world of Free and Open Source Software. New users greatly improve our baseline and provide critical feedback on Fedora and what we could improve on. With respect to our experienced users their technical feedback on Fedora is always welcome and greatly encouraged. This is a prime opportunity to seek contributors and new users in these areas. Since there is very little data about the southern states Fedora can be easily promoted to those states that have no community events outside of Local User Groups. This is also in turn expands our baseline of users and most importantly the ability to expand our contributors to the project.
There also is another aspect of this event which demonstrates the versatility of Fedora with respect to Amateur Radio enthusiasts. We have on hand several individuals involved in Amateur Radio that can demonstrate the interoperability of Fedora with our Amateur Radio Special Interest Group and the ability to become a licensed Amateur Radio Operator. Ben Williams is also planning on submitting a talk about how to use Fedora for Ham Radio. Nick Bebout may co-present with him. We are also going to be coordinating a Ham Radio License test session at SELF, as we have done the past several years.
Measured success?
There are many ways that data can be collected. Each event has vastly different attendees, which can be difficult determine how to collect data from the attendees. The measured success during this event relies on the ambassadors working the booth and the ability to speak to each attendee and encourage each individual to provide feedback on Fedora Workstation and the project. Our success is measured on having our booth visitors fill out a non personal questionnaire that details their experience at the booth and about Fedora in specific. Each DVD that is distributed will be counted and identified to the individuals need and use for the software. The questionnaire will also ask the attendee on what they like or dislike about Fedora, current Operating system being used, and if the individual would like to get involved in the project which is started immediately after receiving the questionnaire if the individual has expressed interest in being involved in the project. The data will be included on the final report for the event and available for all to review.

@bex @mattdm @nb both this ticket and the link have been updated with new write up and budget information.

@bex @mattdm -- @jbwillia is also planning on giving a talk about the Fedora Live Respins that he makes (same as the released live images, but with the current updates applied). This can also be part of the "enables software developers and community members to build tailored solutions for their users" part of the mission, since people can build customized respins for their users to meet their particular needs.

FAmNA West meeting acquired 4 votes for the event the reaming will be obtained from the next FAmNA meeting east.

+1. This makes 5 I believe, so this is approved.

@award3535 thank you for updating the write up. I am curious how you are going to promote modularity if the primary attendee is expected to be the "everyday user." I believe there is a message there, but I am curious how it plays out.

I believe that for this event, as described here, we need to focus on moving toward the experiment being run with LFNW this year where the travel is $60 and the balance of the budget is some swag. This means that if we are going to do this we need to recruit an ambassador in this region. Can this become a follow up point for this event?

Also, iirc in the side email thread about this event it was mentioned that a large percentage of the users are actually professional system administrators. You allude to this in the write up above but then also say the event is focused on the "everyday user." This is somewhat confusing for me.

@bex the people that we get at our booth identify themselves as such, the everyday user, the data I collected in writing pretty much says the same. I will provide as much data that I can gather for this event.

An extra $100 is approved for buying blank DVD media per @nb and @mattdm

@nb understand, the event is approved for $1000.00.