Have we discussed this? I think we haven't.

I think this should be addressed next meeting.

please don't remove Peru and Brazil groups until we have more mentors here.

I suggest creating a fedora-latam group in FAS, this maybe can help doing that every country has to notify of new people

+1 @asoliard

I wrote an email where I stated that I am not opposed of country group a de-facto. I am opposed of country group as a means to by-pass cla+1 without thinking. Beyond wiki editing, we are given vote to people. We are also given fedorapeople storage, email alias, and several other benefits.

The only reason so far is "statistical" and that can be done by using fas, like the ambassador map or ambassador check list. Also it can be done using a category in the wiki page or with a badge. All of those are risk free, as you can trac people without given them any benefits. I like the wiki category as requires an user effort. I think people will love the badges idea, not sure if that will be approved.

As thing are right now I strongly suggest to erase all country groups.

Exception to be made with fedora-uk that I think is the only other country group outside latam. The group administrator is quick to respond by email. He has stated that he do not want his group to be removed. He only grant access to people after significant contribution has been proven. But also he said that is for statistical control not implemented. I suggest exception as we (LATAM) should not impose over internal issues outside our region. But I guess, if all country group are disband with a better option for statistical records, UK will follow the lead.

By the way, I see no relation between this issue and the request and approval of mentors. Those are two different matters, groups are related to fas and infra, where mentors are related to famsco.

I agree with Neville here. But I believe the request should come from all group admins, I keep bringing this up and giving up due to opposing oppinions on the matter (the discussions drain too much energy which we could use contributing in other areas).

For now, I have been ignoring new requests for the fedora-br. I believe we should, together, as LATAM, set a date to erase those groups (fedora-{region} sunset?)

@athoscr I would like to suggest deleting all LATAM groups within one-month. As I see there is no valid reason to have them alive. Let's give that timeframe (1 month) so people can tell their point of views on this situation.

What is the status of this issue? Should we discuss this again in the next meeting?

@x3mboy I think as soon we have new mentors we can drop these groups,

https://pagure.io/fama/issue/2201

https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/433

Hello world, In my opinion: as all of you know, any potential colaborator needs to have a profile page in the wiki as one of initial steps to join to any team and by now the only way to give access to new people is the country/regional FAS groups, if we can get any alternative method to give them access to the wiki I'm agreed with delete this FAS groups.

We talked about this in FAD Latam.

What we can do is to have a "latam" group, to centralize, and to force that most of us meet each other. Newcomers must introduce himself via Telegram, IRC or Mail List, so we can "meet" first, and then add the newcomer to the "latam" group.

Another think we discussed is that we need to differentiate between "latam users" and "latam ambassadors". #fedora-latam is for Latinamerica Ambassadors, but we use it to everything.

Hello world, In my opinion: as all of you know, any potential colaborator needs to have a profile page in the wiki as one of initial steps to join to any team and by now the only way to give access to new people is the country/regional FAS groups, if we can get any alternative method to give them access to the wiki I'm agreed with delete this FAS groups.

The other regions do not have such group. What we should do in this case is to create the wiki page for the newcomers ourselves. Remember that being CLA+1 means more than being able to create wiki pages.

People should not be required to create a wiki page in order to join a team. When the wiki changes were made to require CLA+1, it was said that groups should change their workflow to allow joining without requiring a wiki user page first. People can create their user page after being sponsored into a group. Yes, we have a wikiedit FAS group, but it is intended for exceptions where people don't fit into any of the existing FAS groups, not for giving people wiki access to create their user page to join another group. People could perhaps post an introduction on the team's mailing list or something, instead of creating a wiki page before they are sponsored. They can create their wiki page after being added to their team's group.

On another hand, I don't see the need for country-specific groups. It seems like it is mainly only LATAM and UK that have country-specific groups. I don't see the need for these.

For Ambassadors there is an specific problem with the wiki, because is a requirement [1] .

There was a long discussion[2] about why UK use the regional FAS group and the implications of CLA+1 privileges.

CommOps discussed this also [3] with the idea of creating a new FAS Group that allows to overcome CLA+1 and don't give the other permissions (e.g.: email aliases) and the final answer was: No, only ambassadors require the wiki edition before joining and it's better than they look for another way to pass though this, giving this task to FAmSCo (but the supposed ticket doesn't exist)

My intention bringing this discussion back is that we should close this ticket as wontfix and let FAmSCo to decide what to do, as CommOps suggested before.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_create_user_page
[2] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/H2TPW7OF7O7XOYRA65QRVWHPLNC7Y3T7/
[3] https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/80

Personally I am against creating localized FAS groups, I don't see any advantage in having them, neither the creation of wiki pages. If you still want to have localized FAS groups (AFAIK there is no other region requesting this), and if you like to get this reviewed by FAmSCo, please add also concrete reasons why this should be useful, so FAmSCo can understand better why this is still a topic in LATAM.
Thanks.
Robert

@robyduck the idea of having localized FAS groups was to have statistics of the country, example: how many persons are in the determined country, the frequency of including new people on the group (which will give the average growth of a country participation in Fedora), and so on.

If my memory is not failing, I think we decided to drop that idea of localized FAS groups due to three reasons: 1) Datagrepper could do the work, 2) The other regions drop the initiative, 3) Nobody is actively using it.

This should no longer a topic.

Regards,
Abdel

Do anyone got inputs here? If not I will close this issue as Rejected in 4 days.

I do, I still believe those groups should be removed. It seems that we have conflicting opinions on this and I have no idea on how to handle the issue.

As we just have jurisdiction over LATAM, and the only one reporting issues with deleting the group is not LATAM (it's UK), I'm +1 to delete the regional groups for LATAM Countries.

We can create a "LATAM" group, and newcomers needs to presents (and be active for a time) before gets accepted in LATAM group (FAS).

That will cause that active contributors meet newcomers and newcomers meet active contributors

Community++

My 2 cents...

P/D: We need to solve one particular situation:
What is #fedora-latam @ freenode?
1.- It's a channel for LATAM ambassadors
2.- It's a channel for support
If it's a channel for ambassadors, we need to get a channel for portuguese support and spanish support, I think that there was a #proyecto-fedora channel, but it isn't official.

I will push the idea to delete this group. When completed the task I will close this ticket.

I still have this pending. I am sorry for the delay.

I was checking fedora-br today. We currently have 55 members that are not in any other non-CLA FAS groups there. I checked it with the script in [1].

We could either remove the groups or take action sending emails to regional lists, to check if each of those users do need to be in the regional groups and remove them if they do not reply.

I also realized that some people spam requests to join FAS groups and some got accepted in a few groups (when they get accepted in one group, there's sort of a cascade effect on acceptance for other groups, since they become CLA+1 after the 1st acceptance).

[1] https://athoscr.fedorapeople.org/scripts/is_cla_plus_2.py

Hi @athoscr!

I still stand the position to delete the country-groups. After deleting them, send an email to regional lists informing the people to participate on the regional group will be sufficient.

Let's not wait further and execute this.

Regards!

@athoscr, do you have any news on this?

Not really, but due to the lack of participation of the other FAS regional groups admins, I believe we can close this issue and let each admin handle their reagional groups individually. At the moment I do not have the time to manually remove users from fedora-br (help welcome), but I will either do it or remove the group eventually (if anyone wants to open a ticket for removal, I am +1 here).